# When did The Andy Griffith Show become "morally questionable"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 6, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117 "2005-10-06T23:12:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/21 "2005-10-07T21:28:31Z")
Come on - you folks never saw the episode “ **Thelma Lou - Dominatrix** ” ? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/22 "2005-10-07T21:53:45Z")
Looks like Mr. Morally Questionable has struck again: > [@](#): > > He decides to clean the house, not with a renewed understanding of the value of a clean house, but with the idea of not looking like a mess, and cleans, but then it occurs to him to manipulate Aunt Bee to give her a feeling of being needed, (it doesn’t occur to them that she might feel to be taken for granted) by dirtying up the place. A neighbor drops by as they are going out and they tell her they are going to meet Aunt Bee at the Bus Stop. She treaspasses and cleans up. Aunt Bee comes in, and as the feels a lack at appearing not needed. Andy motions Opie to mess up his room, and as Aunt Bee goes up there, Andy messes up the kitchen. I, too, am shocked that they have Aunt Bee feeling a lack on daytime television. There are children watching this stuff! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/23 "2005-10-07T21:58:19Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > (one featured Carol Burnett as a man-crazy officer and the other was about Lou Ann Poovy [who had the most psychotic expressions I’ve ever seen on a character- I wonder whatever happened to the actress]) [It would appear she has retired into obscurity.](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0534281/) BTW, **Sampiro** , do you think Andy Taylor could have handled the lead in _“HACKSAW! - The Musical”_? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/24 "2005-10-07T22:05:44Z")
Maybe the fact that the show had no African-Americans on it–this in NC in the '60’s (hell, in NC, EVER) has something to do with the morall reprehensibility. If memory serves (always chancy with me), the show’s producers said that they didn’t want to deal with the whole “race issue”, so they eliminated an entire race. I had never realized, growing up watching reruns of AGS followed by the Dick Van Dyke Show on channel 9 here in Chicago, that there were no blacks in Mayberry at all. When I heard that, I thought back and sure enough–there weren’t. It changed the way I felt about the show. I lost alot of respect for it, after that. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/25 "2005-10-07T23:40:04Z")
Uh, have I broken any rules by responding to the loon [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:The_Andy_Griffith_Show)? He specifically requested reasoning for the redaction, so I thought I’d oblige – but it’s awfully hard to explain things without basically saying “You’re a subliterate moron!” which I’m sure ain’t kosher. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/26 "2005-10-08T00:57:51Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > Come on - you folks never saw the episode “ **Thelma Lou - Dominatrix** ” ? Wasn’t that the episode Barney showed her his “bullet”? ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/27 "2005-10-08T03:11:17Z")
This is quite an entertaining little battle. Even though I have never seen a single episode of the show, I will have to keep going back to the Wikipedia entry to see if Hackwrench ultimately gives up on trying to impose his idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/28 "2005-10-08T03:13:41Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > If memory serves (always chancy with me), the show’s producers said that they didn’t want to deal with the whole “race issue”, so they eliminated an entire race. Maybe so but the show was based on Andy Griffith’s boyhood home of Mt. Airy, NC. I don’t know what its population breakdown was at the time but it’s not unheard of for small towns to have no minorities. I grew up in such a town in Illinois in the '70s and it’s still 98.35% white as of the 2000 census. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/29 "2005-10-08T03:28:25Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Maybe so but the show was based on Andy Griffith’s boyhood home of Mt. Airy, NC. I don’t know what its population breakdown was at the time but it’s not unheard of for small towns to have no minorities. I grew up in such a town in Illinois in the '70s and it’s still 98.35% white as of the 2000 census. I grew up a town in NJ that had two or three black kids out of about 500 in grades 4-8. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/30 "2005-10-08T06:32:53Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Uh, have I broken any rules by responding to the loon [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:The_Andy_Griffith_Show)? > > He specifically requested reasoning for the redaction, so I thought I’d oblige – but it’s awfully hard to explain things without basically saying “You’re a subliterate moron!” which I’m sure ain’t kosher. Well, DNFTT springs to mind. 😉 And perhaps you might as well throw caution to the winds and actually come right out with the “subliterate moron” label. Speaking for myself, I found your critiques and rebuttals to his “defenses” to be exemplars of courtesy. ---
**Author:** ![RobuSensei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/919ad9/32.png) [@RobuSensei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobuSensei)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/31 "2005-10-08T14:54:34Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Speaking for myself, I found your critiques and rebuttals to his “defenses” to be exemplars of courtesy. I agree. They were courteous, precise, and well-detailed. Thus, I wonder about this Hackwrench person’s ability to comprehend it. What with his…grammatically challenged…writings, and the astonishing naivete shown by what he’s put in his personal profile, I have my doubts. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/32 "2005-10-08T16:03:53Z")
This has the potential to become one of the [lamest edit wars ever](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lamest_edit_wars_ever). ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/33 "2005-10-08T16:25:52Z")
> [@Terminus Est](#): > > This has the potential to become one of the [lamest edit wars ever](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lamest_edit_wars_ever). Oh I know. I have responded to this nitwit on the talk page for the article. If reason doesn’t work I don’t think I will continue this already fairly lame edit war for very long. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/34 "2005-10-08T17:10:42Z")
Thanks, **kaylasdad** and **RobuSensei**. What a waste of time trying to reason with that loon, though. > [@me](#): > > Everybody has an opinion. Neutral point of view doesn’t mean including opposing points of view for everything. Take a look at the articles on major ethical systems. They just say what they’re about. They don’t include lengthy rebuttals. It’s ridiculous that you keep appending a lengthy rebuke of the “morals” of TAGS to this article. Why not append everything you don’t like about every show ever created to each wiki article? Because it’s opinion, and doesn’t belong here. > > > [@Hackwrench](#): > > > > I intend to. Heve to start somewhere. Plus, watching episodes of shows I don’t like the values of in order to express an informed position takes time. I have a feeling this person is one of the “very few” that’s going to end up with his IP blocked, and soon. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/35 "2005-10-08T17:40:47Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > I have a feeling this person is one of the “very few” that’s going to end up with his IP blocked, and soon. I certainly hope you are correct about that but I’m not letting my hopes get too high. On the vandalism page they lay out the guidelines for being blocked. Apparently stupidity isn’t one of the reasons. They more or less say to be considered a vandal you have to have the _intent_ to screw up an article. This knucklehead actually seems to think he is improving it. ---
**Author:** ![middleman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/36 "2005-10-08T21:50:14Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Maybe so but the show was based on Andy Griffith’s boyhood home of Mt. Airy, NC. I don’t know what its population breakdown was at the time but it’s not unheard of for small towns to have no minorities. I grew up in such a town in Illinois in the '70s and it’s still 98.35% white as of the 2000 census. In the South though, it is somewhat uncommon. The black families would have lived in seperate areas, but the town would have been used by both. But when this show aired, they would have had seperate water fountains and the show probably would have veered off in a less than breezy direction. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/37 "2005-10-08T22:32:20Z")
> [@middleman](#): > > In the South though, it is somewhat uncommon. The black families would have lived in seperate areas, but the town would have been used by both. Right now, Surry County is like 7% black. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/38 "2005-10-08T22:36:30Z")
> [@Kolak of Twilo](#): > > I certainly hope you are correct about that but I’m not letting my hopes get too high. On the vandalism page they lay out the guidelines for being blocked. Apparently stupidity isn’t one of the reasons. They more or less say to be considered a vandal you have to have the _intent_ to screw up an article. This knucklehead actually seems to think he is improving it. Well, the Wikipedia’s founder has told Hackwrench to change his ways, so being blocked seems like a definite possibility if the nonsense continues. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/39 "2005-10-08T22:53:18Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > If memory serves (always chancy with me), the show’s producers said that they didn’t want to deal with the whole “race issue”, so they eliminated an entire race. [This page](http://www.bookguy.com/Mayberry/BlacksInMayberry.htm) mentions that the show’s creators have “admitted” as much, but also points out that parts for African-Americans were written during the program’s later seasons. Even in the earliest days of _The Andy Griffith Show_, however, “black and white” was an apt description not only of the stock on which the program was filmed/taped, but of the (at least occasional) racial mix evident among background residents of Mayberry. Incidentally, I watched[Episode 87](http://www.mayberry.com/tagsrwc/wbmutbb/anewsome/private/64-95.htm) the other day. The mountebank who calls himself “Colonel Harvey” is promoting an “Indian elixir” which turns out to be 85% alcohol. During his pitch, the “colonel” asks (more or less): “Have you ever seen a stressed-out Indian?” Andy looks to Barney and remarks, “I don’t know if I’ve ever seen an Indian!” Mount Airy (the model for Mayberry) is only about 200 miles from the town of [Cherokee](http://www.cherokee-nc.com/) – of course, that drive takes about four hours even today, and was certainly more time-consuming 40 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2005, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117/40 "2005-10-08T22:58:11Z")
Just to add to that, you say “the South”, but remember, the show takes place in western North Carolina, in the Appalachians, which doesn’t have, and never has had, a large black population. This isn’t the lowcountry, or southern Mississippi. There never were big plantations or a lot of slavery in the area (If you look at the 1860 census data, there were 8949 whites, 134 free blacks, and 1246 slaves in Surry County. Compare that with a place like Jones County, NC, near the Atlantic coast, which, while half Surry’s size, with a total population of 5730, compared to Surry’s 10,380, had about three times the number of slaves; 3415, compared to Surry’s 1246). Was the ommission of blacks an attempt to avoid portraying the racial tensions in the 60s? Probably, but the absence of blacks isn’t as unrealistic there as it would be in other parts of the South. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-andy-griffith-show-become-morally-questionable/325117.md?page=3)