# When did the Borg jump the shark?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [March 27, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580 "2003-03-27T19:00:23Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/1 "2003-03-27T19:00:23Z")
Obviously we were all impressed when these single-minded machines carved the Enterprise up like a Thanksgiving turkey after Q introduced us to them.
Then, somewhere, it all went to pot.
When was it? Was it for no explicable reason needing to convert Picard to Locutus to assimilate Earth? Was it humanizing Hugh? Was it when Lore showed up? Was it when the Queen showed up? Was it the entire run of _Voyager_?
I’ll accept general bitching about the loss of what could have been the Federation’s most deadly enemy in reality, as opposed to what they kept insisting was true despite evidence to the contrary. 😉
Esprix
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### Author:  [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/2 "2003-03-27T19:30:33Z")
The Borg Queen gets my vote. Kind of scraps the whole hive mind thing for a literal insect hive thing, where the queen is in charge and the others are just mindless slaves.
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### Author:  [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/3 "2003-03-27T19:34:02Z")
I’d say it was when they invented the _deus ex machina \* virus, which Picard was too damned decent to use._ From then on out the Borg logically could only be as much of a problem as the Federation wanted to let them be, removing all dramatic tension.
“Next Generation” didn’t really hit its stride until they came up with the Borg. Then the writers threw it away.
- The Borg could wipe out humanity without working up a sweat, and he throws away the only effective weapon they ever managed to create because he’s _squeamish_? Kirk would have used it in a heartbeat.
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/4 "2003-03-27T19:40:09Z")
I can agree with both of those.
The Queen thing ruined it for me. It’s cool and scary that they’re a _literal_ communism.
That episode where there’s 100,000 Enterprises and one of them has a bearded, destroyed Riker yelling, “The bord are everywhere! We won’t go back!” gave me shudders.
As for BrotherCadfael’s argument I agree. Allow me to quote:
Carter Burke: “This is a unique species. I don’t think we have the right to just exterminate them”
Ripley: “WRONG!”
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### Author:  [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/5 "2003-03-27T19:42:17Z")
For me, the Borg ceased to be scary in the TNG episode where they were no longer a hive mind, but simply one more bunch of bad guys with guns. I know they tried to go back to hive-mind concept after that, but it never was really the same.
Blame it on Hugh, I suppose, but in spite of that, I liked the episode “I, Hugh.” I was rather hoping that, after Hugh was re-assisimilated, all the Borg, everywhere, would bear a great affection for Geordi LaForge. Now _that_ might’ve been interesting!
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### Author:  [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/6 "2003-03-27T19:56:13Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by BrotherCadfael \*
> **I’d say it was when they invented the _deus ex machina \* virus, which Picard was too damned decent to use._ From then on out the Borg logically could only be as much of a problem as the Federation wanted to let them be, removing all dramatic tension.**
That virus was just a picture that couldn’t exist in the real world. In effect, the borg could be brought down by a book of
Eischer prints. it is best to ignore that part of the episode. And the borg went to pussiness when Janeway started beating them every week.
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### Author:  [@Fibber\_McGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fibber_McGee)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/7 "2003-03-27T20:24:36Z")
No kidding, anyone Janeway can beat once, let alone time and time again, had just best turn in their villain badges and go home before they embarrass themselves any further.
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### Author:  [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/8 "2003-03-27T20:24:47Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance{/i]
> That episode where there’s 100,000 Enterprises and one of them has a bearded, destroyed Riker yelling, “The bord are everywhere! We won’t go back!” gave me shudders.
I _loved_ that episode! I’ve never liked alternative universe storys (_Mirror, Mirror_ excepted), but this one really made the concept work.
However, “the bored are everwhere” may well explain the popularity of the SMDB…
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### Author:  [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/9 "2003-03-27T20:26:02Z")
Sorry for the sloppy coding, it’s been a long day…
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### Author:  [@Kn\_ckers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kn_ckers)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/10 "2003-03-27T20:31:46Z")
I was going to say, “Everything Voyager touched, it destroyed. Including the Borg.”
THEN, **Miss Mapp** reminded me of Hugh (about whom I had thankfully forgotten), and I have to say that I think he, the Wesley Crusher of the Borg, was the shark jumper. But Voyager didn’t help any.
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### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/11 "2003-03-27T20:44:09Z")
Forget the Queen, the Borg jumped the shark when they had Hugh.
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### Author:  [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/12 "2003-03-27T21:33:20Z")
Hugh was a bad episode. I thougt the Lor Borg episode was good but under explored. The real Borg should have asked the feds to help deal with LorBorgs.
But in Voyager…
In Next Gen One Borg Cube give the Enterprise a run for it’s money. On cube smashes up a whole fleet at Wolf 359. Fine, but to have puny little Voyager regularly go against several Borg Cubes and come out basically unscathed was ridiculous.
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### Author:  [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/13 "2003-03-27T21:50:27Z")
I suspect that even the Borg, as they cruised the spaceways in their unassailable Cube armada, minds linked into a single collective superconsciousness, would occasionally look at each other and go, “Man, what is our _deal?_ What the heck are we supposed to be _doing_, anyway?”
Obviously their quest to assimilate other species was born of a painful awareness of their own vast mediocrity. They were desperate to acquire that elusive quality that would transform them into really first-class adversaries. You’ll notice that they never assimilated short races, for example.
Seriously, while the rock-opera space zombie schtick made them an interesting change of pace from the usual shoulder-bepadded **Trek** adversaries, they should never have been allowed to become a recurring foe. I mean, they had _no dialogue!_ How can you have an enemy with no freakin’ dialogue on a character-driven show? That’s like having multiple episodes where the Mugatu attacks.
Ideally, the Borg should have been held in reserve at the edge of the Galaxy, a remote but ever-present danger, until finally allowed to swoop in and deal out some serious widescreen hurt on the Federation and its neighbors. I wanted to see whole planets assimilated, colonies scooped from planetary crust and hurled into space, humans, Klingons, Romulans, everybody scrambling to defend against an overwhelmingly superior enemy. Instead we got endless sorties and meditations on the nature of individuality. Hey, screenwriters; maybe you hadn’t noticed, but you covered that territory in the _first Borg story!_ Yes, the Collective is bad for individuality! We get it! There’s nothing more to say! You spent that nickel! Move along, please!
Oh, my god… I’m getting a psychic flash… something…something about the upcoming episode of _Enterprise_ where the Borg are slated to appear! I’m getting the sense that…yes, they will try to _assimilate someone_… the Enterprise crew will intervene… and the Borg will be defeated! And the moral is that assimilation is bad, and individuality is good! And in the end it doesn’t really matter!
In other words, the Borg didn’t jump the shark; they _were_ the shark.
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### Author:  [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/14 "2003-03-27T22:24:27Z")
Heh. Nicely done, **Terrifel**.
I’ve always been a little fuzzy on the whole “Borg baby” thing. In the first ep. we find “Borg maturation chambers” and li’l baby Borg. Then we find out they gain in numbers by assimilating other beings. Do they assimilate babies, too? Is that why they need those chambers? Or do they allow drones to reproduce? Are they born with implants, or do they get them later? And Ichep and the other kiddies - were they born that way, or were they assimilated? At least we saw the maturation chambers again.
And let’s not even get into the “29th century Borg,” One. Cool concept and cool character, but does he really fit into the pantheon of spotty Borg history we know and revile?
Esprix
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### Author:  [@MusicJunkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicJunkie)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/15 "2003-03-27T22:47:20Z")
I first saw the borg in the First Contact movie, and, although they weren’t bad IN the movie, I get the impression that by then jumping the shark was a fond memory of a time long ago. They’re just so inconsistent
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### Author:  [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2003, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/16 "2003-03-27T23:02:16Z")
Despite her faults in relation t Borg consistency, I really, really like the Borg Queen (both actresses).
Esprix
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### Author:  [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/17 "2003-03-28T00:07:38Z")
There’s a joke there, **Esprix**. Should I?
* * *
For me, it was Hugh. And Lore made it worse. They almost got good again during V’ger, mostly because of that killer queen.
Dynomite with a laser beam
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### Author:  [@The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mad_Hermit)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2003, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/18 "2003-03-28T00:14:31Z")
I think that the Borg degenerated form an unknown threat to just another adversary with “I, Borg.” It seems that the Feds are just as guilty of the intolerance they accuse the Borg of making their life’s work.
Wouldn’t there be any Federation citizens with conditions that threaten their lives who would be grateful to be Borg-ified? People with injuries like Captain Pike’s (from “The Menagerie”?)
Also, doesn’t the Federation try to “assimilate” the cultures they encounter?
It all boils down to the writing. Each writer of a new Trek wants to reinvent the wheel.
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/19 "2003-03-28T00:29:23Z")
Whoa. Someone bring me up to speed.
'29th Century Borg"? Is that like ‘20th Century Foxes’?
V’Ger? Borg? I know who V’Ger is. What’s the connection?
Bear in mind for most of DS9 and all of Voyager I lived in an area where I couldn’t get UPN.
Help?
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### Author:  [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2003, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-borg-jump-the-shark/164580/20 "2003-03-28T00:54:27Z")
Well I loved _First Contact_, so I have to say that it’s after that. That rules out all of _Next Generation_. I also thought that Picard’s decision in “I, Borg” was one of his finest moments. One point that _Star Trek_ makes all too well is that nothing says good, old-fashioned evil like genocide.
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