# When did the concept of human progress first become generally considered? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 18, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-concept-of-human-progress-first-become-generally-considered/550626 "2010-08-18T15:46:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-concept-of-human-progress-first-become-generally-considered/550626/21 "2010-08-22T04:50:10Z")
I think notions of progress are evident in any religion that has a defined beginning and end of the world- and even in cyclical religions that recognize repeating arcs of progress. I think universalist evangelical religions like Christianity especially show the concept of progress, as they posit that more and more people (or less and less, as it may be) will hear about and adhere to the religion. The catch may be that these concepts of progress may not have been necessarily about material progress- they may be about spiritual or cultural progress. The idea that life didn’t vary much from century to century before the last 200 years is absurd. While material things may have not changed as much (although there were plenty of game-changing innovations in agriculture, animal husbandry, arts, ceramics, weapons, etc.) political and social life changed plenty as empires rose and fell. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-concept-of-human-progress-first-become-generally-considered/550626/22 "2010-08-22T06:06:59Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > The idea that life didn’t vary much from century to century before the last 200 years is absurd. While material things may have not changed as much (although there were plenty of game-changing innovations in agriculture, animal husbandry, arts, ceramics, weapons, etc.) political and social life changed plenty as empires rose and fell. You have to have a decent record of history to notice that change though. ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-concept-of-human-progress-first-become-generally-considered/550626/23 "2010-08-22T10:10:46Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > The idea that life didn’t vary much from century to century before the last 200 years is absurd. While material things may have not changed as much (although there were plenty of game-changing innovations in agriculture, animal husbandry, arts, ceramics, weapons, etc.) political and social life changed plenty as empires rose and fell. Those changes, whilst acknowledged, were not the kind of changes I was referring to in the OP because they either do not follow a particular, agreed, path to a ‘better’ end or they were piecemeal and widely spread out in time. Nowadays it’s something everyone takes for granted. In every technology and every academic discipline, in terms of wealth, health, etc, we are on a seemingly never ending (with setbacks) path of improvements. I was asking about the **idea** of progress as a continuous, on going, process. When did people become aware that we were on this path? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-concept-of-human-progress-first-become-generally-considered/550626/24 "2010-08-22T11:00:54Z")
> [@qpw3141](#): > > I was asking about the **idea** of progress as a continuous, on going, process. When did people become aware that we were on this path? Among the greater populace, I’d have to imagine that the idea would have been popularized by Science Fiction novels. > **[History of science fiction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_science_fiction)** > > The literary genre of science fiction is diverse, and its exact definition remains a contested question among both scholars and devotees. This lack of consensus is reflected in debates about the genre's history, particularly over determining its exact origins. There are two broad camps of thought, one that identifies the genre's roots in early fantastical works such as the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh (earliest Sumerian text versions c. 2150–2000 BCE). A second approach argues that science ficti... Going from that link, it looks like things had definitely hit by the early 1600s. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-concept-of-human-progress-first-become-generally-considered/550626/25 "2010-08-22T21:24:55Z")
Here is a [timeline of medieval technology](http://scholar.chem.nyu.edu/tekpages/Timeline.html). Some of this stuff, like heavy plows, arabic numerals and horse collars really did lead to massive changes. To give one example, feudalism was a huge (but not necessarily better) change from the system that predated it. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > You have to have a decent record of history to notice that change though. Whose to say that they didn’t? Oral history can be quite detailed and a big part of a culture’s outlook. I knew a guy who could recite his family’s history for seven generations. Even if he could not read and write, he had a pretty good sense of the march of time. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2010, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-concept-of-human-progress-first-become-generally-considered/550626/26 "2010-08-22T22:41:06Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > The idea that life didn’t vary much from century to century before the last 200 years is absurd. While material things may have not changed as much (although there were plenty of game-changing innovations in agriculture, animal husbandry, arts, ceramics, weapons, etc.) political and social life changed plenty as empires rose and fell. Empires rose and fell, but progress was nothing like it has been in the last 200-500 years. We have seem dramatic progress in all fronts. Human rights, civil rights, political rights, science, medicine, education, standards of living, etc. Heavy plows, arabic numerals and horse collars were all advances. But the last few hundred years have seen thousands of large advances, whereas before recent history there were very few large advances. Science, medicine and standards of living didn’t change much until a few hundred years ago. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-concept-of-human-progress-first-become-generally-considered/550626/27 "2010-08-23T00:28:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > > [@mascaroni](#): > > > > Beer is believed to have been invented 11, 000 years ago. > > Point taken, but we need to set a lower bar for “progress” if this discussion is to have any meaning. Point taken. How about the first time someone picked up a stick and realized the guy with the food didn’t hold one?😃 ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-concept-of-human-progress-first-become-generally-considered/550626/28 "2010-08-30T11:37:39Z")
Too low? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-concept-of-human-progress-first-become-generally-considered/550626.md?page=1)