# When did the last North Atlantic passenger ship lines \[cease\] operations? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 17, 2016, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325 "2016-02-17T10:55:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/41 "2016-02-18T05:45:14Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Cunard’s first _Queen Mary_ was named after the consort of George V. _Queen Mary 2_ is not named after any queen, but after the earlier ship. :smack: Good to know! It always did seem odd to me. I was joking about _Mary 2_, though–it’s the same as _QE2_, of course–otherwise they’d be using the proper _II_ instead of “2.” ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/42 "2016-02-18T07:15:20Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Could you clarify what you mean by that? Is a cruise ship vs. ocean liner somehow defined by appearance? How many “Staterooms” does the QE2 have? How many decks above the gunwales? The modern cruise ship is a hi-rise hotel. Compare pics of QE2 to QM2 to any of the Carnival Cruise ships. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/43 "2016-02-18T07:47:40Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > How many “Staterooms” does the QE2 have? How many decks above the gunwales? > > The modern cruise ship is a hi-rise hotel. > > Compare pics of QE2 to QM2 to any of the Carnival Cruise ships. But all that just goes to the size of the ship, not its function. The distinction between an ocean liner and a cruise ship has nothing to do with passenger capacity, the number of staterooms or the number of decks. A liner is built to make long ocean voyages while keeping to schedule; it tends to be designed for greater tolerance of heavy seas, have a stronger hull, and have larger capacities for consumables such as food and fuel than a cruise ship, which is expected to spend more time in coastal waters and to visit ports more frequently. Liners tend to be capable of greater speed. ---
**Author:** ![Donnerwetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/44 "2016-02-18T08:50:46Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Typo in title fixed. (Temporarily removing the brown paper bag from his head) Thanks. :o (Putting the brown paper bag back on) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/45 "2016-02-18T14:16:50Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > How many “Staterooms” does the QE2 have? How many decks above the gunwales? > > The modern cruise ship is a hi-rise hotel. A high-rise hotel that makes regular trips between ports would be an ocean liner, no? > [@](#): > > Compare pics of QE2 to QM2 to any of the Carnival Cruise ships. [QM2 next to the Allure of the Seas](http://www.titanic-titanic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=132). They actually look quite different. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/46 "2016-02-18T14:22:50Z")
OK, the [Carnival Triumph](http://frank-vitale.photoshelter.com/image/I0000au1B2Ha4pGk) looks more similar to the QM2, but there are notable differences, e.g. the height of the lowest open decks and the height of the lifeboats. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/47 "2016-02-18T15:06:23Z")
And the gunwales are flush with the cabin structure on the Triumph, whereas the QM2 has the more traditional recessed upper decks. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/48 "2016-02-18T19:28:58Z")
> [@choie](#): > > :smack: Good to know! It always did seem odd to me. I was joking about _Mary 2_, though–it’s the same as _QE2_, of course–otherwise they’d be using the proper _II_ instead of “2.” And the first Queen Elizabeth was named for the Queen Mother, not for the Virgin Queen. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/49 "2016-02-18T21:04:23Z")
Apparently, we have different definition of “oceanliner”. In my mind, the term refers to the old Cunard vs White Star steamships. The long, low lines of the great ships. When you start adding more and more decks, it looks like a cheap, gaudy “_Everyone_ is _ **First Class** _ with\* Us\*!”. The old steamships had a few, obscenely expensive “First Class”, a few “Second Class” and the money-making Steerage class. The class distinction was quite real. Kinda like a real castle vs a Disney Land “castle”. There is some vague similarity. The former is much more expensive and exclusive; the latter is cheap and is specifically designed to move the maximum possible number of people through it. It may well be possible to differentiate between the “Castle” at one Disney park vs the “Castle” at another Disney park. Just don’t mistake either for a real castle. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/50 "2016-02-18T22:11:58Z")
definition of cruiseship vs ocean liner has nothing to do with appearance. It has to do with hull design and max speed. Carnival ships could not do regular transatlantic crossings, they’re too slow and can’t handle the rough seas. QM2 is the last ocean liner (until they build a new one), it looks like a cruise ship but underneath its a different beast. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/51 "2016-02-19T02:06:54Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Continued longer between Aus and England. I think the last migrant ship to arive in Australia was the SS Australis, December 1977. And (at a guess) that would have been trans-atlantic. I haven’t seen the log-book for that voyage, but most of the Aus. migrant ships went (for whatever reason) England / USA /Panama / Aus, or, if the Panama canal was closed, England / USA / Cape Horn /.Aus ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/52 "2016-02-19T02:18:23Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Apparently, we have different definition of “oceanliner”. > > In my mind, the term refers to the old Cunard vs White Star steamships. The long, low lines of the great ships. > When you start adding more and more decks, it looks like a cheap, gaudy “_Everyone_ is _ **First Class** _ with\* Us\*!”. It’s perfectly possible to have a cheap, gaudy ocean liner. Why not? > [@usedtobe](#): > > The old steamships had a few, obscenely expensive “First Class”, a few “Second Class” and the money-making Steerage class. > The class distinction was quite real. FWIW, the passenger capacity of the Titanic was distributed 34$ first class, 25% second class and 41% third class. The QM2 is much more democratic; 85% of the passengers travel “Britannia class”, and just 15% in the (superior) “grill class”. Plus, the distinctions between the two classes are comparatively few. The grill class passengers get more spacious accommodation, plus a couple of restaurants that only they can use. Otherwise all facilities are shared, which certainly wasn’t the case on ocean liners a hundred years ago. But what this reflects is changes in the market. There was a heavy demand for basic accommodation on ocean liners in the past, because ocean liners were the cheapest (and, really, the only) way to engage in intercontinental travel. Not now, obviously. Nobody sails from Southampton to New York in order to make the journey cheaply; they do it to experience the voyage, or because they find flying distasteful or have a medical condition which prevents it. The Britannia class passengers on the QM2 have vastly better accommodation, facilities and conditions than third-class passengers on a liner a hundred years ago. But that’s just the ocean lines responding to the market. The business they are in - port-to-port carriage of passengers, keeping to a schedule - is the same as it always was. (At least, when they are sailing the North Atlantic route.) And the vessels are designed and built for that. Which is what makes the ocean liners, not cruise ships. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/53 "2016-02-19T03:36:55Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Interestingly, the Titanic II makes it’s first voyage in 2018. It’s modeled after the doomed ocean liner albeit a little larger and much safer. Yeah maybe but don’t take any bets. Clive Palmer, the “eccentric billionaire” behind the project is showing a lot of signs of being in severe financial difficulties. Grandiose plans that don’t materialise are one of his “eccentricities”. Clive Palmer is a [great guy](http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/palmer-defends-donations-despite-mass-sackings-at-his-queensland-refinery-20160117-gm7tic.html), [clean as a whistle.](http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-15/workers-lose-jobs-clive-palmers-qld-nickel-refinery-townsville/7091064) ---
**Author:** ![Shamozzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shamozzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shamozzle)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/54 "2016-02-19T05:47:00Z")
When I was eight years old, in 1979, my family and I took the TSS Stefan Batory from Montreal to Amsterdam, where my father had found work. We didn’t take that ship for novelty value, we took it based on costs, as we had our entire household bound up in trunk after trunk and we had no plans to return. So, we know people were taking scheduled passenger service across the Atlantic with transport as the sole intent until at least 1979… ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/55 "2016-02-19T09:34:30Z")
Wow, it looks like the Stefan Batory was sailing between Gdynia and Montreal (with stops) until late 1987 or early 1988. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/56 "2016-02-19T10:02:51Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Wow, it looks like the Stefan Batory was sailing between Gdynia and Montreal (with stops) until late 1987 or early 1988. Wow. yep you’re right. > **[TSS STEFAN BATORY, 1968/ 1988 - Polish Ocean Liner/ Polski Transatlantyk](https://stefanbatoryoceanliner.weebly.com/)** > > Website dedicated to the Polish Ocean Liner TS/S STEFAN BATORY 1968/ 1988... Strona internetowa dedykowana polskiemu transatlantykowi TS/S STEFAN BATORY, 1968/ 1988 Also, I know its not what OP was asking about, but Indonesia still has an extensive network of large passenger ships on regular scheduled routes, and some of their ships are big enough to be considered ocean liners. [http://maritimematters.com/2011/03/travels-on-pelni-pt-pelayaran-nasional-indonesia-by-jonathan-boonzaier/](http://maritimematters.com/2011/03/travels-on-pelni-pt-pelayaran-nasional-indonesia-by-jonathan-boonzaier/) ---
**Author:** ![Dana\_Scully](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5daacb/32.png) [@Dana\_Scully](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dana_Scully)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/57 "2016-02-19T16:59:33Z")
> [@Donnerwetter](#): > > Indeed. There might be the occasional traveller with a mortal fear of flying who books a cabin on the Queen Mary, but other than that, entertainment (i. e. enjoying the trip) is the main purpose. I dislike flying intensely. What would a round trip ticket on the QM cost? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/58 "2016-02-19T18:40:56Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > The Queen Mary is most certainly _NOT_ a cruise ship. It is an ocean liner. Saying it is a cruise ship is like calling Motel 6 the Waldorf. Cruise ships can’t sail around the world. They just aren’t designed for it. > > Interestingly, the Titanic II makes it’s first voyage in 2018. It’s modeled after the doomed ocean liner albeit a little larger and much safer. Since we’ve established that there is still passenger service from the US to Europe, what about other voyages? For example, can you take a passenger ship from the US to Australia? Australia to Chile? Brazil to South Africa? Mexico to China? ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/59 "2016-02-19T19:07:01Z")
One advantage to using a ocean liner over an airplane is cargo. If you’re moving instead of visiting you can take far more with you. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2016, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325/60 "2016-02-19T19:09:27Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Since we’ve established that there is still passenger service from the US to Europe, what about other voyages? For example, can you take a passenger ship from the US to Australia? Australia to Chile? Brazil to South Africa? Mexico to China? My understanding is that the titanic 2 will be going between China and Dubai. Not sure if it’ll have other ports of call. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-last-north-atlantic-passenger-ship-lines-cease-operations/746325.md?page=4)