# When did the meaning of "martini" change **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 12, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278 "2012-08-12T16:43:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/21 "2012-08-12T20:21:45Z")
What I find upsetting is the fact that people who call themselves real martini snobs want a big fat glass of gin with an olive in it. Go watch _The Thin Man_ and look at the size of them glasses! Plus I think there’s actual vermouth up in them, not just a bottled “waved over the top”! ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/22 "2012-08-12T21:01:08Z")
Actually, what the OP is asking about – gin and dry vermouth – is a variation on the earlier recipe for a martini, which used sweet vermouth. People started using the dry vermouth and calling it a dry martini, which eventually stopped using “dry” as the sweet version went out of favor. The gin martini is now undergoing the same process. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/23 "2012-08-12T21:03:06Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Isn’t a martini glass just another name for a cocktail glass? These pictures - [here](http://www.ginologist.com/Wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/glasses.jpg) [here](http://www.fivediamondhospitality.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Bar-Glasses.jpg) [here](http://www.foldedspace.org/images/cocktails/drinks16.jpg) - show various glasses used to serve alcoholic drinks. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/24 "2012-08-12T23:27:46Z")
A martini is a recipe, not a style! I order “martini, gin, straight up, olive” until the bartender gets to know me. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/25 "2012-08-13T00:04:59Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > Dirty martini drinkers always tell you exactly what they want. Dry Tanq 10 martini, dirty, 4 olives. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/26 "2012-08-13T01:47:26Z")
To be fair a traditional “martini” is one part gin one part vermouth. Modern gin martini’s tend to have just a tiny touch of vermouth. They may as well just be called gin, neat with a splash of vermouth. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/27 "2012-08-13T01:57:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > These pictures - [here](http://www.ginologist.com/Wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/glasses.jpg) [here](http://www.fivediamondhospitality.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Bar-Glasses.jpg) [here](http://www.foldedspace.org/images/cocktails/drinks16.jpg) - show various glasses used to serve alcoholic drinks. Yep. And your last link shows a martini glass labeled as a “cocktail” glass. Yes, I am familiar with alcoholic drinks and the types of glasses they come in, trust me. Note [Wikipedia’s entry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martini_glass) on “martini glass.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/28 "2012-08-13T02:02:07Z")
duplicate. ---
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/29 "2012-08-13T03:56:41Z")
William Powell drinks vodka martinis in the film _My Man Godfrey_ from 1936, so I’d say that variation has been around forever, or as long as vodka’s been available. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/30 "2012-08-13T04:06:28Z")
At this time I must inject into this thread an old limerick: There once was a man named Sweeney, Who spilled some gin on his weenie. Being very uncouth, he added vermouth, and slipped his gal, a martini. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/31 "2012-08-13T04:22:55Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > What I find upsetting is the fact that people who call themselves real martini snobs want a big fat glass of gin with an olive in it. Go watch _The Thin Man_ and look at the size of them glasses! Plus I think there’s actual vermouth up in them, not just a bottled “waved over the top”! My brother, a crusty ex-sailor, refers to those tiny old martini glasses as “David Niven glasses.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/32 "2012-08-13T11:22:45Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > William Powell drinks vodka martinis in the film _My Man Godfrey_ from 1936, so I’d say that variation has been around forever, or as long as vodka’s been available. Yeah, but it was James Bond who make the vodka martini, shaken not stirred, the standard. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/33 "2012-08-13T11:33:37Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > My brother, a crusty ex-sailor, refers to those tiny old martini glasses as “David Niven glasses.” Smaller glasses mean that the drink can easily be finished before it gets warm. And then you can have another one. Or four. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/34 "2012-08-13T12:28:25Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > To be fair a traditional “martini” is one part gin one part vermouth. Without even being aware of this I have always ended up with this mix as I think that the gin and the vermouth should have a neat balance. Apart from this there is one school that claims that there should be two olives so they can lie there in the glass and look at each other. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/35 "2012-08-13T12:41:22Z")
Order a Gibson, and you’ll get a gin/vermouth martini just with an onion instead of a olive. Worst case, they’ll ask you vodka or gin. I’ve never had a bartender who automatically made a vodka Gibson. I prefer that pickled onion to olives anyhow. I like to fire off my drink orders as concisely as possible, so I enjoy ordering “Gibson” rather than blathering on like the typical Starbucks asshole with an order as long as my arm. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/36 "2012-08-13T13:08:39Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > There’s a school of thought that any cocktail served in a martini glass is a martini. I know, and everytime I hear of a new ‘martini’ drink, I think WTF? I was in training in Bellevue last week, and a classmate of mine went to a ‘Martini Bar’. The next day he told me about this ‘Tequila Martini’ they had 😕. That’s not a martini! ---
**Author:** ![destineal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@destineal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/destineal)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/37 "2012-08-13T13:28:20Z")
One annoying thing I’ve run into a few times: the bartender assuming I want a dirty martini. If I wanted a glass of juniper-flavored brine, that’s what I’d ask for. ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/38 "2012-08-13T13:49:57Z")
I started drinking martinis only about four years ago. I thought ordering a “martini” would get me what I wanted. I have since learned that to get what I want I need to ask for, “a gin martini with Tanqueray if you have it, middle-of-the-road, not too sweet, not to dry, with dry vermouth, with a lemon twist not a lemon wedge, if you have it, if you don’t have a twist, then **one** olive, not “dirty” but clean, stirred, not shaken.” If they don’t have dry vermouth, I tell the bartender to forget it and get me a beer. If I don’t give the bartender that long ridiculous order, I have no idea what I’m going to be served. I really don’t want to be a martini snob, I just know what I like. (Hey, if I was a martini snob, I wouldn’t be asking for Tanqueray.) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/39 "2012-08-13T13:53:59Z")
**When did the meaning of “martini” change?** When that bastard **MartiniEnfield** got ahold of it. Ruined it for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Like\_Pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9f8e36/32.png) [@I\_Like\_Pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Like_Pie)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278/40 "2012-08-13T14:17:22Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > Dirty martini drinkers always tell you exactly what they want. Tanqueray martini, extra dirty, with 2 (preferably blue cheese) olives. Delish! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-meaning-of-martini-change/631278.md?page=3)