# When did the modern concept of a "novel" come into being?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-modern-concept-of-a-novel-come-into-being/939769>\
**Category:** Cafe Society\
**Tags:** books-writing-myths\
**Created:** [April 10, 2021, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-modern-concept-of-a-novel-come-into-being/939769 "2021-04-10T21:34:23Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 5\
**Page:** 2

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\
**Post date:** [April 12, 2021, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-modern-concept-of-a-novel-come-into-being/939769/21 "2021-04-12T05:58:00Z")

</div>

> [@GreenWyvern](#):
>
> Robinson Crusoe was followed in the early 18th century by Eliza Haywood’s many novels, _Love in Excess_ , _The Fair Captive_ , and many more.

I haven’t heard of Eliza Haywood since a long-ago girlfriend found that she loved Haywood’s works. She (the girlfriend) went on to become a university English literature professor, and wrote and edited books about Haywood.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\
**Post date:** [April 12, 2021, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-modern-concept-of-a-novel-come-into-being/939769/22 "2021-04-12T05:58:00Z")

</div>

I’ve heard Japan’s _The Tale of Genji_ cited as the first (known) worldwide.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2021, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-modern-concept-of-a-novel-come-into-being/939769/23 "2021-04-22T11:00:20Z")

</div>

> [@GreenWyvern](#):
>
> I guess it depends whether you’re talking about ‘literary’ novels, or fairly trashy and melodramatic romance novels. 🙂

??? Pamela was a fairly trashy and melodramatic romance novel, but I don’t see that Robinson Crusoe was ‘literary’.

Anyway, the English novel as a _popular concept_ started with Pamela. Robinson Crusoe was popular for many years, but nobody was reading the ‘new Robinson Crusoe’. Pamela started an avalanche of imitation.

However, Pamela was episodic. Reading a non-episodic novel requires a different way of reading, and the episodic form remained popular even as the new form evolved.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2021, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-modern-concept-of-a-novel-come-into-being/939769/24 "2021-04-22T12:11:02Z")

</div>

> [@Melbourne](#):
>
> ??? Pamela was a fairly trashy and melodramatic romance novel

I think you’d find a lot of people English Departments who would disagree with that.

Anyway, I referring to Eliza Haywood’s novels.

> [@Melbourne](#):
>
> but I don’t see that Robinson Crusoe was ‘literary’.

That’s probably why @Dendarii_Dame’s professor said that _Pamela_ was really the first novel, in his opinion.

> [@Melbourne](#):
>
> Anyway, the English novel as a _popular concept_ started with Pamela.

I disagree. The OED gives the first use of ‘novel’ as ‘a fictitious prose narrative or tale of considerable length’ in 1639, and ‘novelist’ as a writer of novels in 1728.

Eliza Haywood’s books were _called_ novels, they _were_ novels as we understand the term, and they were highly popular.

Before her, and before Defoe, there was Aphra Behn’s _Oroonoko_ (1688), which some people regard as the first novel.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2021, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-modern-concept-of-a-novel-come-into-being/939769/25 "2021-04-22T12:18:38Z")

</div>

> [@GreenWyvern](#):
>
> I think you’d find a lot of people English Departments who would disagree with that.

I’m surprised. Perhaps they haven’t read it.

[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-modern-concept-of-a-novel-come-into-being/939769.md?page=1)