# When did the news media stop trying to appear non-partisan? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542 "2017-06-21T15:31:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/21 "2017-06-22T12:39:15Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > As for TV, the evening news was traditionally just a headline service, without much room to appear partisan. Just as an aside, I’m giggling at the possibilities of a world that never was. _“President Nixon announced today that he is not a crook.”_ [beat] _“But he totally is, you guys.”_ [beat] _“And now, this.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/22 "2017-06-22T13:53:45Z")
No mention yet of the [Fairness Doctrine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine)? Cliff Notes version - The holders of public airwave broadcast licenses were required to present controversial issues of public importance and to do so in a manner that was — in the Commission’s view — honest, equitable, and balanced. Then, during the Reagan administration the Fairness Doctrine was eliminated. What followed is our current world. So, newspapers were never subject to the Fairness Doctrine and were consequently more transparently slanted. Whereas broadcast media was subject to the Fairness Doctrine. For those of us over a certain age, we have a memory of broadcast news being more newsy and not slanted. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/23 "2017-06-22T14:04:55Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I believe it was when television news became a network business model instead of loss leader. Followed immediately by opinion being confused with fact. ^ This +1 Television news is a business now. The news departments/networks need to attract viewers and advertisers. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/24 "2017-06-22T14:13:45Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > It’s not the news media’s job to be neutral. (post shortened) Then the news media is no longer a “news” media. They’ve let themselves become just one more professional lobbying group. Personally, I prefer that the fourth estate supply verified facts. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/25 "2017-06-22T14:40:03Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Just as an aside, I’m giggling at the possibilities of a world that never was. > > _“President Nixon announced today that he is not a crook.”_ > > [beat] > > _“But he totally is, you guys.”_ > > [beat] > > _“And now, this.”_ [http://www.gotfuturama.com/Multimedia/EpisodeSounds/3ACV03/](http://www.gotfuturama.com/Multimedia/EpisodeSounds/3ACV03/) > [@](#): > > Walter Cronkite’ head: “Season’s warnings, Linda and Morbo.” > Bender: “This guy’s too trustworthy! What’s his angle?” > Walter: … “This is Walter Cronkite saying ‘I told you so’.” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/26 "2017-06-22T14:55:08Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > Then the news media is no longer a “news” media. They’ve let themselves become just one more professional lobbying group. > > Personally, I prefer that the fourth estate supply verified facts. Heh, that has been my motto for years, more than once I have pointed out that since there is a bias that can be almost impossible to remove, then as consumers we should look at the sources that do not have a preference to feed viewers and readers with things that are not facts. To this day I have not been able to find FOX officially denouncing programs like their Moon Hoax show. I do remember Gerardo on a FOX news mentioning that show in passing, but the comment was neutral as like saying “how nice that was” as in ‘nothing more needs to be said’ because some type of viewers can get upset. Just about what can be expected from the “Mr. Al Capone’s vault” fiasco. That abortion of the facts Moon Hoax show is what IMHO made a lot of people that fall for conspiracy theories to love that network. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/27 "2017-06-22T15:40:36Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > That abortion of the facts Moon Hoax show is what IMHO made a lot of people that fall for conspiracy theories to love that network. So, more loyal viewers! So it worked. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/28 "2017-06-22T15:45:39Z")
In 1986 philosopher [Thomas Nagel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Nagel) published [The View From Nowhere](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_View_From_Nowhere) which argued against this sort of bland neutrality arising from an attempt to seem a detached observer. Nagel proved influential in a circle of journalism which sought to subvert the detached narrator model that had been prevalent at the time. Among those influenced was [Jay Rosen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Rosen), faculty member at NYU School of Journalism (and future department chair). Rosen took Nagel’s point of view to heart and promoted as preferred that journalists should express their view in their reporting, albeit with the responsibility to disclose that point of view to their audience. It was not long before journalists dropped Rosen’s last proviso and stopped disclosing their own biases. TLDR; at least since 1986, and accelerating since then. ---
**Author:** ![Settimo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Settimo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Settimo)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/29 "2017-06-22T20:58:41Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > No mention yet of the [Fairness Doctrine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine)? > > Cliff Notes version - The holders of public airwave broadcast licenses were required to present controversial issues of public importance and to do so in a manner that was — in the Commission’s view — honest, equitable, and balanced. Then, during the Reagan administration the Fairness Doctrine was eliminated. What followed is our current world. > > So, newspapers were never subject to the Fairness Doctrine and were consequently more transparently slanted. Whereas broadcast media was subject to the Fairness Doctrine. For those of us over a certain age, we have a memory of broadcast news being more newsy and not slanted. Interesting. I just read that one of the arguments why folks think this (doctrine) is no longer needed, is there used to be slimmer pickings in broadcast news. Now, with the profileration of channels, a viewer (so they say) is less at risk of getting one-sided views. My two cents–trying to filter out the spin by “balancing” your viewing between, say, FOX and MSNBC is a huge pain in the ass. So people just float in their little broadcast news echo chambers. Here’s the punchline on modern arguments over reinstituting the Fairness Doctrine (ready?)–it’s become a partisan issue! ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/30 "2017-06-22T21:08:29Z")
Two notes on the fairness doctrine. 1. It applied only to broadcast license holders (the “airwaves” being public property vs cable being private property) 2. It was repealed in 2011 > [@](#): > > On August 22, 2011, the FCC formally voted to repeal the language that implemented the Fairness Doctrine, along with removal of more than eighty other rules and regulations, from the Federal Register following a President Obama White House executive order directing a “government-wide review of regulations already on the books”, to eliminate unnecessary regulations mc ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2017, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/31 "2017-06-22T21:44:54Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > Two notes on the fairness doctrine. > > 1. It applied only to broadcast license holders (the “airwaves” being public property vs cable being private property) > 2. It was repealed in 2011 > > mc It was eliminated in the 80s. There was nothing left of it by 2011. I remember when Obama was first running some Republicans were saying there was a danger that he’d revive it, but he was never really a fan in the first place. Free speech and all that. ---
**Author:** ![miketx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@miketx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miketx)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/32 "2017-06-23T16:48:13Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I turned on CNN last night at a break in a baseball game to see how the Georgia Congressional election was going, and I didn’t need to hear a word. Each of the four talking heads looked like someone had shot their dog. > > I remember the same was true when I tuned in during the Presidential election and saw Chris Matthews and Rachel Maddow in similar distress. (I’d be 1,000% sure the same would be true on Fox if Clinton had won, so I’m not trying to slant this as a one sided, left/right thing.) > > My question is when did Journalists and or the news media stop making an effort to even appear non-partisan? I’m in my mid-50’s and I remember in my teens and throughout most of my life, that the news talking heads seemed truly ambivalent about who won. When I got old enough to know what they probably did care, and could make a guess who they wanted to win or lose, it was still hard for me to tell by the telecast. (I’m thinking about watching the CBS news with Dan Rather when Bush I won. It seemed obvious that Rather wasn’t a fan a Bush based on some earlier reporting, but I couldn’t spot it on election night. > > So my question is what caused this and when did this change? Is it all due to cable news? It’s due to the liberal scum that owns most of the media. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/33 "2017-06-23T17:22:44Z")
> [@miketx](#): > > It’s due to the liberal scum that owns most of the media. Most of them are Jewish, so what do you expect? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/34 "2017-06-23T21:08:41Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I remember the same was true when I tuned in during the Presidential election and saw Chris Matthews and Rachel Maddow in similar distress. (I’d be 1,000% sure the same would be true on Fox if Clinton had won, so I’m not trying to slant this as a one sided, left/right thing.) To be blunt, if your reaction to Trump’s election wasn’t despair and cursing, something is wrong with you. Bipartisanship in reaction to an election where one party nominated a rational politician and the other elected a reality TV host with no apparent understanding of the difference between reality and fiction is _not reasonable_. When one side is rationally indefensible, fair newscasting does not obscure this. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/35 "2017-06-23T21:43:19Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > In 1986 philosopher [Thomas Nagel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Nagel) published [The View From Nowhere](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_View_From_Nowhere) which argued against this sort of bland neutrality arising from an attempt to seem a detached observer. > > Nagel proved influential in a circle of journalism which sought to subvert the detached narrator model that had been prevalent at the time. Among those influenced was [Jay Rosen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Rosen), faculty member at NYU School of Journalism (and future department chair). Rosen took Nagel’s point of view to heart and promoted as preferred that journalists should express their view in their reporting, albeit with the responsibility to disclose that point of view to their audience. It was not long before journalists dropped Rosen’s last proviso and stopped disclosing their own biases. > > TLDR; at least since 1986, and accelerating since then. Wow, I didn’t know that. Maybe someday we’ll have a philosophy of mind advanced enough to tell us what it’s like to be a Fox (viewer)! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/36 "2017-06-23T21:56:51Z")
The important thing to remember is that both sides do it. Partisans are stupid, so if you are totally non-partisan, you must therefore be smarter. Non-partisan Broderism is the aunt that everybody kisses but nobody loves. ---
**Author:** ![quimper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7c8e57/32.png) [@quimper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quimper)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/37 "2017-06-23T22:16:11Z")
I think non-partisan media was the anomaly (perhaps a confluence of the rise of the middle class and the Cold War, perhaps something else) and we’re just returning to the default state. People (on both sides) just love their red meat. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/38 "2017-06-24T00:33:36Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > It was repealed in 2011 It was abolished in 1987. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/39 "2017-06-24T00:51:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It was abolished in 1987. that’s what **Rushgeekgirl** said, too. but it’s not the whole truth; form a [WaPo](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-fairness-doctrine-in-one-post/2011/08/23/gIQAN8CXZJ_blog.html?utm_term=.1e1573c9a8e0) article from 2011 > [@](#): > > . . the FCC began to reconsider the rule in the mid-80s, and ultimately revoked it in 1987. . . While the FCC has not enforced the rule in nearly a quarter century, it remains technically on the books. As a part of the Obama administration’s broader efforts to overhaul federal regulation, the FCC is finally scrapping the rule once and for all. like a vampire, it was hard to kill! mc ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2017, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542/40 "2017-06-24T02:58:06Z")
> [@quimper](#): > > I think non-partisan media was the anomaly (perhaps a confluence of the rise of the middle class and the Cold War, perhaps something else) and we’re just returning to the default state. People (on both sides) just love their red meat. This. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-news-media-stop-trying-to-appear-non-partisan/789542.md?page=3)