# When did the spelling of Hawaii become Hawai'i? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 9, 2006, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754 "2006-03-09T22:42:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/21 "2006-03-10T06:34:24Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > Thanks all. I didn’t realise that it was more of a pronunciation thing to emphasise the double i vowel. All I could see was an extra apostrophe appearing for no apparent reason. Then you (and many of the participants in this thread) don’t quite get it. The tick mark or apostrophe (or whatever it’s called) in Hawaiian should be treated as an ordinary letter. It stands for one of the 13 phonemes of the language and thus should be treated just like the others. We tend to think of it as different because (1) we use the same (or a similar) symbol in English for a non-phonemic purpose and (2) we don’t have the same sound in English except in a couple utterances (uh-oh and uh-uh[sup]1[/sup]) that are more like grunts than words. _Spelt_, on the other hand, looks fine to me. [/QUOTE] Just another minor difference in spelling between the US and Britain. There’s several hundred of them. No big deal. [sup]1[/sup] uh-uh is actually pronounced like either two Ms or two Ns, each preceded by a glottal stop. (It indicates negation; I’m sure most people are familiar with it.) How this spelling got attached to that utterance is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/22 "2006-03-10T08:03:05Z")
It’s part of the reform of the Hawaiian language which aids in pronunciation, similar to what happened a couple decades ago with Chinese. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/23 "2006-03-10T08:32:12Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > I’m still stuck on “spelt.” > > Eek. You’re OK, they’re OK. [semijack]“spelt” is the British spelling of the past and past participle of “spell” according to my Webster’s _Collegiate._[/semijack] ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/24 "2006-03-10T11:04:26Z")
I wanna go to huhwaheeeeeeeeeeeee YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/25 "2006-03-10T13:24:55Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > We tend to think of it as different because (1) we use the same (or a similar) symbol in English for a non-phonemic purpose and (2) we don’t have the same sound in English except in a couple utterances (uh-oh and uh-uh[sup]1[/sup]) that are more like grunts than words. Actually, there are several words in English that have the same sound–depending on where one lives and talks. Western Pennsylvania is notorious for pronouncing mountain as moun’n and similar pronunciations are associated with fountain, captain, wanton, and other words where a /t/ sound is preceded by a nasal or (bilabial?) plosive and followed by a nasal and where the accent is on the first syllable. (I suspect that a lot of people to the North of Western PA do, as well, since I heard that a lot growing up in Michigan.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/26 "2006-03-10T13:35:53Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Western Pennsylvania is notorious for pronouncing mountain as moun’n and similar pronunciations are associated with fountain, captain, wanton, and other words where a /t/ sound is preceded by a nasal or (bilabial?) plosive and followed by a nasal and where the accent is on the first syllable. (I suspect that a lot of people to the North of Western PA do, as well, since I heard that a lot growing up in Michigan.) I thought everyone pronounced it that way. 🙂 That’s the way I say mountain, and I grew up in New England. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/27 "2006-03-10T14:02:52Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > [sup]1[/sup] uh-uh is actually pronounced like either two Ms or two Ns, each preceded by a glottal stop. (It indicates negation; I’m sure most people are familiar with it.) How this spelling got attached to that utterance is beyond me. How do you figure this? Maybe you pronounce it differently, but I pronounce “uh-uh” with the “u” sound as in “bus.” Sometimes, it’s “Nuh-uh.” There’s also “mm-mm” which can indicate negation and “mm-hmm” which can indicate aggrement. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/28 "2006-03-10T14:06:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Actually, there are several words in English that have the same sound–depending on where one lives and talks. Oh, certainly, and there’s plenty of British dialects where it’s common to replace many "t"s with glottal stops. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/29 "2006-03-10T14:14:59Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Oh, certainly, and there’s plenty of British dialects where it’s common to replace many "t"s with glottal stops. I love how in certain accents, the phrase “glottal stop” contains a glottal stop 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/30 "2006-03-10T14:16:23Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I love how in certain accents, the phrase “glottal stop” contains a glottal stop 🙂 Or two: /glo’el sto’/ ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/31 "2006-03-10T14:50:02Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > You’re OK, they’re OK. > > [semijack]“spelt” is the British spelling of the past and past participle of “spell” according to my Webster’s _Collegiate._[/semijack] Thank you, I had no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/32 "2006-03-10T15:32:20Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > You’re OK, they’re OK. > > [semijack]“spelt” is the British spelling of the past and past participle of “spell” according to my Webster’s _Collegiate._[/semijack] It’a also the way I pronounce it. 🙂 When unstressed, of course. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/33 "2006-03-10T16:01:33Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Western Pennsylvania is notorious for pronouncing mountain as moun’n and similar pronunciations are associated with fountain, captain, wanton, and other words where a /t/ sound is preceded by a nasal or (bilabial?) plosive and followed by a nasal and where the accent is on the first syllable. (I suspect that a lot of people to the North of Western PA do, as well, since I heard that a lot growing up in Michigan.) I always wondered where I got that. My parents grew up in Eastern Penna and I definitely say moun’en, mi’en (“mitten”), won’en (wanton), foun’en. For “capten” I pronounce the t. A friend from Minnesota claims that all Easterners drop their t’s. Now if I could just figure out why I say “tawk” for talk but “cah-fee” for coffee. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/34 "2006-03-10T17:49:48Z")
> [@AudreyK](#): > > Jeez. “There has been no spelling change, just a more widespread insistence on inserting the correct diacritical marks into Hawaiian words.” Better? No! It’s not a diacritical mark! The `okina is a letter in the Hawai`ian alphabet. The fact that it doesn’t look exactly like a letter in the Roman alphabet does not mean it’s not a letter. > [@AmbushBug](#): > > My middle school geography teacher (who lived in Hawaii for a time) told me that the deal with the Hawaiian language is that every single vowel is pronounced, so when you saw a Hawaiian word written in English, pairs of vowels had the glottal stop between them. So “aa” (the crumbly sharp lava rock) is pronounced “ah-ah”, and the popular '60s “muumuu” Hawaiian dress you’d pronounce properly as “moo-oo moo-oo”. > > I think the “Hawai’i” spelling, with the apostrophe, is just a way to clue the “haole” in. Much like the written Hawaiian language itself. Nuh-uh. The `okina is a letter that represents a specific sound, a glottal stop. Most haoles probably don't recognize it as a consonant in its own right, since it's not really a phoneme that exists in English. But it's a consonant just like K or H or any other consonant used in Hawai`ian. Two vowels in a row do _not_ always have a glottal stop between them. > [@ouryL](#): > > It’s part of the reform of the Hawaiian language which aids in pronunciation, similar to what happened a couple decades ago with Chinese. What are you even talking about with regard to Chinese? > [@pulykamell](#): > > How do you figure this? Maybe you pronounce it differently, but I pronounce “uh-uh” with the “u” sound as in “bus.” Sometimes, it’s “Nuh-uh.” There’s also “mm-mm” which can indicate negation and “mm-hmm” which can indicate aggrement. It’s the sound _in between_ the vowels. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/35 "2006-03-10T17:50:51Z")
Now all I need is to figure out how to actually make an `okina on my keyboard . . . ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/36 "2006-03-10T18:04:46Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > No! It’s not a diacritical mark! The `okina is a letter in the Hawai`ian alphabet. The fact that it doesn’t look exactly like a letter in the Roman alphabet does not mean it’s not a letter. I must confess that I put this idea out there first before changing my language to say it’s a letter. Initially, I didn’t think diacritic could be used this way, but some Hawai’ian language pages convinced me otherwise, although incorrectly, it seems. > [@](#): > > It’s the sound _in between_ the vowels. What is the sound in between the vowels? That’s the glottal stop. That’s what I’ve always said. I was under the impression that **dtlique** was saying that “uh-uh” was pronounced as “mm-mm” or “nn-nn” (with glottal stops in between) rather than “uh-uh.” ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/37 "2006-03-10T18:24:21Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I must confess that I put this idea out there first before changing my language to say it’s a letter. Initially, I didn’t think diacritic could be used this way, but some Hawai’ian language pages convinced me otherwise, although incorrectly, it seems. You’re right. For shame! SHAME! ---
**Author:** ![Geek\_Mecha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecae2f/32.png) [@Geek\_Mecha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geek_Mecha)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/38 "2006-03-10T19:29:44Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > No! It’s not a diacritical mark! The `okina is a letter in the Hawai`ian alphabet. The fact that it doesn’t look exactly like a letter in the Roman alphabet does not mean it’s not a letter. I surrender. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/39 "2006-03-10T19:32:17Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > No! It’s not a diacritical mark! The `okina is a letter in the Hawai`ian alphabet. The fact that it doesn’t look exactly like a letter in the Roman alphabet does not mean it’s not a letter. In her defense, she went to the University of Hawai`i, and rightly or wrongly, [they say it’s a diacritical mark](http://www.hawaii.edu/site/info/diacritics.php). ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/40 "2006-03-10T19:44:36Z")
> [@Gozu Tashoya](#): > > In her defense, she went to the University of Hawai`i, and rightly or wrongly, [they say it’s a diacritical mark](http://www.hawaii.edu/site/info/diacritics.php). That’s bizarre. I have no idea why they would get something like that wrong on their website. The kahako definitely is, but the `okina simply isn't. A diacritic is a mark added to a letter to indicate something about its sound, but an `okina is not added to another letter at all. Perhaps they’re just reflecting common confusion about the issue - it might be that whoever designed that page simply isn’t aware of the difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754.md?page=3)