# When did the spelling of Hawaii become Hawai'i? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 9, 2006, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754 "2006-03-09T22:42:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/41 "2006-03-10T20:28:10Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > That’s bizarre. I have no idea why they would get something like that wrong on their website. The kahako definitely is, but the `okina simply isn't. A diacritic is a mark added to a letter to indicate something about its sound, but an `okina is not added to another letter at all. This is what I thought, too, but you’ll see that the `okina is referred to as a diacritic in many websites. That’s how I originally got to calling it a diacrtic. I agree with you, it’s wrong, but it seems to be a common mistake. [This web site](http://www.hawaiihistory.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ig.page&PageID=496), however, is somewhat clearer on the matter: > [@](#): > > In its written form, the language uses an alphabet of 13 letters: five vowels (a, e, i, o, u) and eight consonants (h, k, l, m, n, p, w) including the `okina or glottal stop. The "sound" of the `okina is similar to the vocal break made when pronouncing “oh-oh.” Omission of the `okina, as with the omission of any other letter, changes the meaning of the word. The kahako, or macron, is a diacritical mark employed primarily as an aid to proper pronunciation; it indicates a stressed and elongated vowel. ---
**Author:** ![Ezstrete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ea924/32.png) [@Ezstrete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ezstrete)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/42 "2006-03-10T22:21:54Z")
> [@LiveOnAPlane](#): > > No. The islanders usually do say “Havay-e”, and mainlanders do usually say “Huhwah-yee” but the islanders I know do not really regard this as a sign of ignorance or stupidity. And, they generally do not regard mainlanders saying it like they do as a real faux pas, either. > > Just my own experiences, yours may vary. > > They’re cool about it. If you’re there, just be yourself and say it like you’ve always said it. Just Hang Loose. I’d like to get my oar in the water before this item sinks under it’s own weight. All during that pleasurable time called WW2 I knew many Kanakas---------from Hawaii to the South Island of NZED. Never have I ever met a Vahine,basked on the beach at Vaikiki,beat to the tempo of the HaVaiian war chant or lazed a day away at Vaiamea. That business of pronouncing a W like it was a V is simply an affectation--------but then it’s a lot like “gay” not meaning what it used to mean. It males me go all ,“pupuli” ,just to hear it. Let’s keep the old language alive-------before it faces the fate of gaelic! Puh-leez! EZ ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/43 "2006-03-10T22:50:47Z")
> [@Ezstrete](#): > > I’d like to get my oar in the water before this item sinks under it’s own weight. > > All during that pleasurable time called WW2 I knew many Kanakas---------from Hawaii to the South Island of NZED. > > Never have I ever met a Vahine,basked on the beach at Vaikiki,beat to the tempo of the HaVaiian war chant or lazed a day away at Vaiamea. > That business of pronouncing a W like it was a V is simply an affectation--------but then it’s a lot like “gay” not meaning what it used to mean. > > It males me go all ,“pupuli” ,just to hear it. > > Let’s keep the old language alive-------before it faces the fate of gaelic! > > Puh-leez! > > EZ Actually, no, [v] and [w] (though the former, at least, is often realized as an approximant and I can’t make the symbol here) are both allophones of /w/ that are commonly used in certain phonetic environments, at least by some speakers. Both are real pronunciations of the sound, well-attested, and neither is an “affectation” (what it has to do with the word “gay”, I couldn’t guess.) ---
**Author:** ![Ezstrete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ea924/32.png) [@Ezstrete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ezstrete)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/44 "2006-03-10T23:34:12Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Actually, no, [v] and [w] (though the former, at least, is often realized as an approximant and I can’t make the symbol here) are both allophones of /w/ that are commonly used in certain phonetic environments, at least by some speakers. Both are real pronunciations of the sound, well-attested, and neither is an “affectation” (what it has to do with the word “gay”, I couldn’t guess.) I agree that pronounciatons are regional ,but from Pearl to Suva To “CHCH” to Agana to Papeete to Espiritu Santo, and points in between,the commonality of V for W is a post ww2 phenomenon. The reference to GAY was to point out how meanings,etc.,change through indiscrinunate usage. AND----------with a clear sea and a firm breeze it’s outa here for EZ . ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/45 "2006-03-11T03:47:07Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > What is the sound in between the vowels? That’s the glottal stop. That’s what I’ve always said. I was under the impression that **dtlique** was saying that “uh-uh” was pronounced as “mm-mm” or “nn-nn” (with glottal stops in between) rather than “uh-uh.” I was merely parroting what my good friends Merriam and Webster say: > **[Definition of UH-UH](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/uh-uh)** > > —used to indicate negation… See the full definition > [@](#): > > Main Entry: uh-uh > Pronunciation: two m’s or two n’s preceded by glottal stops; '&n-"&n > Function: interjection > – used to indicate negation You got a problem with it, you argue with them. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/46 "2006-03-11T06:29:17Z")
> [@Gozu Tashoya](#): > > In her defense, she went to the University of Hawai`i, and rightly or wrongly, [they say it’s a diacritical mark](http://www.hawaii.edu/site/info/diacritics.php). Maybe it’s simply that the name for the little back-tick mark is the “diacritical mark,” and when writing Hawai`ian words with our alphabet it represents the consonant known as the `okina? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/47 "2006-03-11T06:33:42Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > Maybe it’s simply that the name for the little back-tick mark is the “diacritical mark,” and when writing Hawai`ian words with our alphabet it represents the consonant known as the `okina? I’m not sure what you’re suggesting. The symbol is conventionally described as a left single quote when used with the Roman alphabet; that’s a punctuation mark, not a diacritic. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/48 "2006-03-11T07:28:43Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I was merely parroting what my good friends Merriam and Webster say: > > [Uh-uh | Definition of Uh-uh by Merriam-Webster](http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/uh-uh) > > You got a problem with it, you argue with them. [American Heritage Dictionary](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=uh-uh) differs. I can’t reproduce the symbols here, but basically, their pronunciation contains the short “u” sound, as does mine. Besides, if you click on the vocal link in your cite, it sounds like it’s spelled, to me, and is exactly the way how I pronounce it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/49 "2006-03-11T07:32:41Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > I was merely parroting what my good friends Merriam and Webster say: > > [http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/uh-uh](http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/uh-uh) > > You got a problem with it, you argue with them. Actually, here’s my point. You say that it’s beyond you how that spelling got attached to that utterance. Listen to the clip included on your Merriam-Webster citation. To me–and maybe it is just me–the only intuitive way to spell that utterence is “uh-uh.” It’s sounds more like “uh-uh” than “mm-mm” or “nn-nn”–to me, at any rate. When I read “mm-mm,” I think of a very different utterence, which can also be used to express negation. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/50 "2006-03-11T08:07:37Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > No! It’s not a diacritical mark! The `okina is a letter in the Hawai`ian alphabet. The fact that it doesn’t look exactly like a letter in the Roman alphabet does not mean it’s not a letter. > > Nuh-uh. The `okina is a letter that represents a specific sound, a glottal stop. Most haoles probably don't recognize it as a consonant in its own right, since it's not really a phoneme that exists in English. But it's a consonant just like K or H or any other consonant used in Hawai`ian. Two vowels in a row do _not_ always have a glottal stop between them. > > What are you even talking about with regard to Chinese? > > It’s the sound _in between_ the vowels. The okina is a consonant ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/51 "2006-03-11T10:21:34Z")
Kin we jus go back tuh spellin’ it “Owyhee,” dagnabit? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/52 "2006-03-11T15:47:58Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > The okina is a consonant Yes, we’ve established that several times in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/53 "2006-03-11T16:21:42Z")
LiveOnAPlane writes: \> The islanders usually do say “Havay-e”, and mainlanders do usually \> say “Huhwah-yee” but the islanders I know do not really regard this as a sign \> of ignorance or stupidity. I believe that most mainlanders say “Huh-wah-yuh”, with an accent on the second syllable. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/54 "2006-03-11T17:03:15Z")
My BF, who is from Hawaii, always says it full on “Ha-vye-e” and makes fun of me for saying it the other way. He says nobody would seriously say it “Ha-why-ee” on the islands unless they were some kind of real big dork. ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/55 "2006-03-12T10:16:56Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > He says nobody would seriously say it “Ha-why-ee” on the islands unless they were some kind of real big dork. Next time he says this, smile and tell him that _“nobody would seriously say it **“Ha-vye-e”** on the **mainland** unless they were some kind of real big dork.”_ Be sure to point out to him that you’re **having this discussion in Oakland, California**. [You probably don’t really feel this way (neither do I), but that just means that we’re less judgmental than he is.] Then, ask him (while speaking English) to name the capitals of France and Italy. Point out that he will have points taken off for: [list=a] [li]Dorkiness.[/li][li]Inconsistency of thought, compared to his insistence on “Ha-vye-e”.[/li][/list] Let us know what his answers are! ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/56 "2006-03-12T11:53:37Z")
> [@Ezstrete](#): > > That business of pronouncing a W like it was a V is simply an affectation--------but then it’s a lot like “gay” not meaning what it used to mean. > > It males me go all ,“pupuli” ,just to hear it. > > Let’s keep the old language alive-------before it faces the fate of gaelic! > > Puh-leez! > > EZ Then, I’m sure you know that the phonetics of w in Hawai’ian work like this: ``` * After /i/ and /e/ usually [v] * After /u/ and /o/ usually [w] * After /a/ and initially, free variation between the two ``` However, there are certainly words which locals pronounce in one way only. Using hah-vai-i /havaj?i/ seems to be an affectation and it should be ha-wai-i /hawaj?i/. See this page for a more detailed explanation of where w is pronounced as v and where it is pronounced w: [http://boole.cs.iastate.edu/book/3-ʷ(��ʷ)/3-������ʷ/www.friesian.com/hawaii.htm](http://boole.cs.iastate.edu/book/3-%CA%B7(%C0%FA%CA%B7)/3-%CA%C0%BD%E7%C0%FA%CA%B7/www.friesian.com/hawaii.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Doobieous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Doobieous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doobieous)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/57 "2006-03-12T12:01:48Z")
> [@Doobieous](#): > > However, there are certainly words which locals pronounce in one way only. Using hah-vai-i /havaj?i/ seems to be an affectation and it should be ha-wai-i /hawaj?i/. Oops, I forgot to add, there is indeed variation among locals, and that the author of the page I posted insists that there is no /v/ in Hawai’i, but I’ve heard locals from Hawai’i indeed pronounce w as v in that word. PS Ez: just because you’ve only heard it one way, certainly doesn’t speak for the rest of other Hawai’ians. I’ve got cousins who are part Hawai’ian and they certainly DO pronounce w as v in certain songs when they sing for their 'ohana during hula performances (I’ve heard them sing, for instance, during one of their wedding receptions). ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754/58 "2006-03-12T23:38:23Z")
> [@Doobieous](#): > > Oops, I forgot to add, there is indeed variation among locals, and that the author of the page I posted insists that there is no /v/ in Hawai’i, but I’ve heard locals from Hawai’i indeed pronounce w as v in that word. > > PS Ez: just because you’ve only heard it one way, certainly doesn’t speak for the rest of other Hawai’ians. I’ve got cousins who are part Hawai’ian and they certainly DO pronounce w as v in certain songs when they sing for their 'ohana during hula performances (I’ve heard them sing, for instance, during one of their wedding receptions). In singing and especially in chanting, we often use the older forms: v for w, t for k, r for l, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-the-spelling-of-hawaii-become-hawaii/347754.md?page=2)