This is what I thought, too, but you’ll see that the `okina is referred to as a diacritic in many websites. That’s how I originally got to calling it a diacrtic. I agree with you, it’s wrong, but it seems to be a common mistake.
This web site, however, is somewhat clearer on the matter:
I’d like to get my oar in the water before this item sinks under it’s own weight.
All during that pleasurable time called WW2 I knew many Kanakas---------from Hawaii to the South Island of NZED.
Never have I ever met a Vahine,basked on the beach at Vaikiki,beat to the tempo of the HaVaiian war chant or lazed a day away at Vaiamea.
That business of pronouncing a W like it was a V is simply an affectation--------but then it’s a lot like “gay” not meaning what it used to mean.
It males me go all ,“pupuli” ,just to hear it.
Let’s keep the old language alive-------before it faces the fate of gaelic!
Puh-leez!
EZ
Actually, no, [v] and [w] (though the former, at least, is often realized as an approximant and I can’t make the symbol here) are both allophones of /w/ that are commonly used in certain phonetic environments, at least by some speakers. Both are real pronunciations of the sound, well-attested, and neither is an “affectation” (what it has to do with the word “gay”, I couldn’t guess.)
I agree that pronounciatons are regional ,but from Pearl to Suva To “CHCH” to Agana to Papeete to Espiritu Santo, and points in between,the commonality of V for W is a post ww2 phenomenon.
The reference to GAY was to point out how meanings,etc.,change through indiscrinunate usage.
AND----------with a clear sea and a firm breeze it’s outa here for
EZ
.
I was merely parroting what my good friends Merriam and Webster say:
You got a problem with it, you argue with them.
Maybe it’s simply that the name for the little back-tick mark is the “diacritical mark,” and when writing Hawaiian words with our alphabet it represents the consonant known as the okina?
I’m not sure what you’re suggesting. The symbol is conventionally described as a left single quote when used with the Roman alphabet; that’s a punctuation mark, not a diacritic.
American Heritage Dictionary differs. I can’t reproduce the symbols here, but basically, their pronunciation contains the short “u” sound, as does mine.
Besides, if you click on the vocal link in your cite, it sounds like it’s spelled, to me, and is exactly the way how I pronounce it.
Actually, here’s my point. You say that it’s beyond you how that spelling got attached to that utterance. Listen to the clip included on your Merriam-Webster citation. To me–and maybe it is just me–the only intuitive way to spell that utterence is “uh-uh.” It’s sounds more like “uh-uh” than “mm-mm” or “nn-nn”–to me, at any rate. When I read “mm-mm,” I think of a very different utterence, which can also be used to express negation.
The okina is a consonant
Kin we jus go back tuh spellin’ it “Owyhee,” dagnabit?
Yes, we’ve established that several times in this thread.
LiveOnAPlane writes:
> The islanders usually do say “Havay-e”, and mainlanders do usually
> say “Huhwah-yee” but the islanders I know do not really regard this as a sign
> of ignorance or stupidity.
I believe that most mainlanders say “Huh-wah-yuh”, with an accent on the second syllable.
My BF, who is from Hawaii, always says it full on “Ha-vye-e” and makes fun of me for saying it the other way. He says nobody would seriously say it “Ha-why-ee” on the islands unless they were some kind of real big dork.
Next time he says this, smile and tell him that “nobody would seriously say it “Ha-vye-e” on the mainland unless they were some kind of real big dork.” Be sure to point out to him that you’re having this discussion in Oakland, California. [You probably don’t really feel this way (neither do I), but that just means that we’re less judgmental than he is.]
Then, ask him (while speaking English) to name the capitals of France and Italy. Point out that he will have points taken off for:
[list=a]
[li]Dorkiness.[/li][li]Inconsistency of thought, compared to his insistence on “Ha-vye-e”.[/li][/list]
Let us know what his answers are!
Then, I’m sure you know that the phonetics of w in Hawai’ian work like this:
* After /i/ and /e/ usually [v]
* After /u/ and /o/ usually [w]
* After /a/ and initially, free variation between the two
However, there are certainly words which locals pronounce in one way only. Using hah-vai-i /havaj?i/ seems to be an affectation and it should be ha-wai-i /hawaj?i/.
See this page for a more detailed explanation of where w is pronounced as v and where it is pronounced w: http://boole.cs.iastate.edu/book/3-ʷ(��ʷ)/3-������ʷ/www.friesian.com/hawaii.htm
Oops, I forgot to add, there is indeed variation among locals, and that the author of the page I posted insists that there is no /v/ in Hawai’i, but I’ve heard locals from Hawai’i indeed pronounce w as v in that word.
PS Ez: just because you’ve only heard it one way, certainly doesn’t speak for the rest of other Hawai’ians. I’ve got cousins who are part Hawai’ian and they certainly DO pronounce w as v in certain songs when they sing for their 'ohana during hula performances (I’ve heard them sing, for instance, during one of their wedding receptions).
In singing and especially in chanting, we often use the older forms: v for w, t for k, r for l, etc.