Yippee.Another PC word is being squashed.In Britain and especially in rural Britain where I am,then they’re still Red Indians.The dudes with the funny hats from India are just Indians…
And don’t let the PC mob get onto the Washington Redskins…
It may be that this comes from the Spanish speakers, too. My wife insists that all Asian Indians are “Hindus” even when I try to explain that not all Asian Indians are Hindus. Hey, that’s her language, so I tend to abuse it and refer to “Hindulandia” rather than “India.” 
What I truly find interesting, though, is that we were always taught that Columbus – an Italian sailing for Spain and therefore some who presumably spoke the Spanish of the day – named the inhabitants “Indians”/“Indios” because he well though he was in Asia. So presumably, at least in his day, Asian Indians would have been “Indios” in Spanish, right? So what happened? Language changes, sure, but it’ll be a long, long time before we start calling the Dutch “Netherlandish” or whatnot.
Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut, since someone better credentialed is bound to be along any moment, but in the New Learning they’re teaching at elementary school these days, Columbus knew very well he wasn’t in India, but he called the local people off the coast of North America “Children of God” because they were so connected with nature ‘n’ stuff. And “In Dios” is In God or Of God or something in Italian. And it stuck, although Columbus wasn’t using it as a namemarker, more of a description.
I have no idea if this new story is any “truer” than what we were taught, but I always find mythology interesting…
I have to disagree with Roches about the use of the word Indian. Every Indian I know in British Columbia – including those working on the magazine show First Story, and others I met socially – prefers the term ‘Indian’, and only uses First Nations when they feel like using an official-sounding synonym.
The word ‘aboriginal’ gets used as a noun quite a bit on newscasts, even though it’s grammatically incorrect.
This story, in fact, is far less true than what we were taught. First of all, in Spanish it would be “en Dios.” Second, I’ve never seen an actual citation of such usage by Columbus.
The alternative I’ve heard is that the Spanish took their word for people from India and stretched the meaning to include the inhabitant of any “uncivilized” nation.
And what about the 98 percent of dudes from India who don’t wear funny hats?
The “in Dios” myth has been pretty solidly debunked; the OED makes no mention of it, and says it derives from “India.”
Columbus was not claming he got to India; just the East Indies. He insisted to his dying day that he reached them, not that what he discovered was connected to a new continent.
As my Staff Report, which RealityChuck links to, indicates, the “in Dios” derivation is a complete and rather absurd fabrication. It’s appalling if children are being taught this kind of nonsense in school. Columbus repeatedly referred to “Indios” and the Indies in his original letter describing his discoveries, and says nothing about them being a “people in God.” At the time, “the Indies” was used to refer to all of south and east Asia.
Just a quick heads-up for you:
You might want to avoid using the term “Red Indians” if you ever come to the US. It’s pretty offensive, both to the Indians themselves, and to plenty of other people, and its use is indicative either of ignorance or boorishness.
I recall one of the leaders of the Cherokee Nation indicating about 15 years ago that he preferred the designation American Indian, but I got the impression that that particular issue was one of the least of his concerns.
Here in BC, I’ve heard the term “First Nations” used as an adjective. Although, I hear Indian far more often. It does seem to have a slight derogatory tone often, though.
Yep, that’s what I figured. ::sigh:: Another argument for Homeschooling - using the SDMB for curriculum, of course! 
Oh sweet Jesus.
wavy lines … wavy lines … wavy lines … wavy lines …
WhyNot: I think that’s enough for today. Now it’s time to do some chores.
SpawnOfWhyNot: Why do I have to do chores?
WhyNot: Because that’s what families do! They all chip in to help.
SOWN: Cite?
WhyNot: Well, I don’t have time to Google now, but all your friends do chores!
SOWN: Inductive fallacy!! Underepresentative sample. Just 'cause my friends do them doesn’t mean all kids do them.
WhyNot: Just do your chores because I say so.
SOWN: Oh ho ho! Just two lines ago you made an inductive fallacy, and you’ve already whipped out the Appeal to Authority!
WhyNot: Please! I’ve had a long day and I’m tired.
SOWN: No! That’s an Argumentum ad Misericordiam! And besides, why do you want me to do all my chores? I’ll be up all night!
WhyNot: HAH! Strawman! I only asked you to do SOME of your chores!
SOWN: Bush-supporting goat felcher!
wavy lines … wavy lines … wavy lines … wavy lines …
I implore you: Do not use the Dope as a school curriculum.
When I was in High School we were supposed to use “Amerind” (American Indian) in our papers and stuff, but it appears that term didn’t get much following since nobody has mentioned it yet.
syncrolecyne mentioned it about 15 posts up. The term is used mostly in scholarly works - you’ll see it in anthropology journals, but not often in more general works. For scientists, it has the great advantage of being unambiguous.
In north-western Ontario, Indian is a term commonly used for self-identification.
There’s a pretty big Sioux population where I used to live in ND. They all say “Indian.”
I think “Native American” was sort of a whitey thing.
I think “American Indian” conveys the right meaning without creating confusion with India.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrgh.
I really can’t stay online all the time, peepul, even though I don’t have that much of a “life”. And this is going to be another of those looong posts. <sigh>
First, thanks to Colibri for the corrections he offered.
I picked this particular post to respond on 'cos it contains some variant on most of the more important issues. Unfortunately, a complete answer to this question includes a great deal of “anecdotal” material; the only other way involves thousands of words and a very long bibliography. Sorry.
Yes, all the different names were attempts at PC. As such, they were basically not originated by NDNs (yup, that’s how we represent it online). NDN is what we’ve heard all our lives. It’s the crusaders, like DeLoria, who tried to lead us all in that direction. Not because he’s that fond of “Whitey”, but because it’s an improvement, so long as it’s not said in “that” tone of voice. Tone of voice is one of the most consistent ways that one’s audience perceives attitudes, ya know.
And no, I’m not dissing Vine DeLoria, but he’s at least the second generation in his family with advanced degrees (I’ve got a book by his mother). I also am not objecting vehemently to the “PC police.” Their hearts are “in the right place,” after all. But it takes more than changing the word(s) to get what all non-whites (i.e., people of non-European descent) living in the U.S. want - recognition of and treatment as equals, according to the Constitution. That is, after all, what it supposedly guarantees.
And most NDN families don’t even have bachelor’s degree holders among GenX, much less my generation. I cannot speak for those whose families have spent all their generations in the last 125-175 years on reservations. My NDN ancestors ducked the Oklahoma reservation; the one side by anticipating the Removal and moving themselves across the Mississippi ~30 years earlier, and the other by several brothers escaping from the U.S. Army somewhere in either Tennessee or Kentucky. In both cases, they kept low profiles and integrated (to the extent permitted, WRT Grampa’s family) with the surrounding white society.
What First Nations people (one of the names that we all agree is both descriptive and lacking a boatload of prejudice behind it) want isn’t a fancy name, but R-E-S-P-E-C-T (apologies to 'Retha). Think of how it feels to a Polish-American to hear “polock” jokes. I know quite a bit about this particular variant flavor of one European-descended person making fun of another because the high school I attended had about 1/3 Black, 1/3 Polish, and 1/3 Everything Else, including me and a girl named Malena (whose last name clearly indicated Indian-from-Asia descent). And having a close friend some 15 years later who was also Polish.
Some Polish-Americans will go along with the joke (the way some very smart blondes go along with blonde jokes), not because they don’t hate it, but because they’ve decided it’s not worth the hassle. And the Anti-Defamation League (correct name?) that people of Jewish descent use to respond seems to me to be necessary, in view of history. I just wish that NDNs’ attempts to do the same thing had a tenth as much respect - and efficacy! Oh, yeah - the other Nat’l Merit Scholarship Semi-Finalist the year I graduated was of Polish descent, and is today a senior faculty member at the law school on one of the major campuses of the California State University system.
OTOH, like Blacks (I refuse to update to current PC terms. I’ve had Black friends most of my life, including the wonderful Black couple whom I have called my “foster parents” since I was 19 or so) NDNs still have to fight prejudice. And with a totally inadequate set of tools (yes, more opinion, but there’s plenty of evidence).
To those who may ask, “What prejudice?”: To this day, NDNs living either on/near reservations, or almost anywhere in the western U.S., have to fight prejudice that is both more general and more vicious than most of you can imagine. High school graduation rates are very low, and unemployment rates on most are in excess of 40% - that’s right; forty percent. The worst area, AFAIK, is in the Dakotas, and is primarily directed toward the Lakota (Sioux is a name given them by other tribes, and means “enemy” in the language from which it came). I haven’t kept up with it in the last four years, but some of it is pretty awful stuff (deaths resulting) that is, AFAIK, still happening there. The Wounded Knee II thing had intense provocation behind it, trust me. Caution: fact-based conclusion. (And it is the rankest injustice that Leonard Peltier is still incarcerated.)
My Grampa couldn’t get a job in Paducah, KY a hundred years ago. Some 30 years later, my Unka Lindsay wound up on a Georgia chain gang for a while because he wasn’t sufficiently obsequious at the wrong time (he’d lived in the “Nawth” too long). I long for the day that we’ll be accused of having gotten where we are through unfair means, the way that many successful Blacks have been since Affirmative Action (yes, there are plenty of freeloaders, but they rarely wind up in prominent, highly-paid positions; those take effort, unless one’s family owns the business. And most family businesses can’t afford to tolerate slackers).
Can you imagine being called by a name chosen/preferred by people who hate and despise you? And who use a tone of voice that conveys both hatred and contempt, while you have no real recourse? Nowadays most white people are aware of the oppressive prejudice that was practiced against Asian Americans (mostly Chinese, but began encompassing Japanese beginning when they began to be recruited to work on the plantations and ranches in Hawaii in the mid-1800s), so I won’t go into any of the horrific details; google if you really want to know, or read a book about it.
As I’ve said in previous posts on NDN-related topics, I’m not-quite-half Cherokee (Tsalagi, if you want the more-or-less phonetic spelling of the correct pronunciation); in Canada, I’d be called a Metis, as much because I’m not-quite one-quarter “French-Canadian”, as for the NDN. A hundred years or so ago, I’d have been called a “breed” in the U.S.
I, personally, don’t find “red Indian” the least bit offensive. Why? Because it is one of three terms used by the Brits. The other two are West Indian (used re people from the Caribbean islands, and (AFAIK) very often a signifier of Black heritage), and East Indian (the Originals). So what’s the difference between Red Indian and the Washington Redskins? The sports team has a really awful caricature that goes along with the name, and some of their fans do really derisive burlesques of us (that have no basis in fact or history). How would you feel?
Whoa, I guess Saskatchewan is the only place in Canada that doesn’t use the term Indian. 
I’m about a third to a half blood, depending on which grandparent is being asked. My grandpa is an “Indian,” (though “that damn Indian” saw more frequent use when he was on the golf course and grandma wanted him to fix something). My pureblood cousins were (and are) “little Indians.” Money derived from ancient court settlements placed in trust and scholarships is “Indian money.” Promotions received in the military/fed government due to being Indian have always been referred to as the result of “bein’ Indian.”
An evolved version of the aforementioned little Indians, now grown to enormous size, towering over the old ladies in the kitchen on Thanksgiving, is a “big huge Indian eating all the apple pie and drinking milk out of the carton like a pig.”
That’s just my family. First Nations sounds pretentious, I’ve never actually heard anyone use it.