# When did tits become obscene? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 19, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996 "2006-11-19T00:58:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/41 "2006-11-20T08:44:05Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] I’ve seen quite a few Great Tits in France, and on occasion Blue Tits in winter. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Great Tits are really great (no double entendre). And no, **ChefGuy** , they don’t wear a veil 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/42 "2006-11-20T08:46:49Z")
I don’t think by any statutory definition a woman’s breasts are considered “obscene”, by far a stronger term than “indecent”, the adjective most often used. ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/43 "2006-11-20T08:47:24Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] I’ve seen quite a few Great Tits in France, and on occasion Blue Tits in winter. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Great Tits are really great (no double entendre). And no, **Chefguy** , they don’t wear a veil 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/44 "2006-11-20T10:46:02Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] Islam uses the term to include all three, and has historically done so. In any case, it seems to me to be a not unreasonable way to refer to the three major Abrahamic religions. Aesthetically, perhaps, you have a point, since it is not a customary term among Christians and means something different to Jews. [/QUOTE] Unfortunately, I muddled the issue by using “people of the Book” rather than “religions of the Book”, which is what Sattua posted and the phrase I meant to refer to. The more familiar “people of the Book” cut in line and messed everything up. To be more clear, it’s the phrase “religions of the Book” that I found ugly, on the grounds that despite the common threads of the three religions, three very separate Books are used and cannot and should not be conflated into one. Does that help? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/45 "2006-11-20T12:55:43Z")
[QUOTE=GuanoLad] What’s actually changed is that it’s become more acceptable for men to bare their chests in public places, than for women to do so. [/QUOTE] Ding ding ding! We have a winner, folks! Before about 1960 or so, a man in America was not considered fully-dressed unless he was wearing a suit and tie. You even dressed like this at home. In the book _To Kill a mockingbird_, the author mentions that she was shocked when her father took off his suit coat in a courtroom (it was very hot in the room), because she had never seen him in anything less than a full suit. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/46 "2006-11-20T15:05:24Z")
“And…tits doesn’t even belong on the list!” [QUOTE=WhyNot] You can show all the tit you want on prime time television, as long as something covers the nipple and areole. [/QUOTE] I guess I don’t watch enough TV. I have never seen a breast on prime time broadcast TV (i.e., excluding premium cable). Your description makes it sound like there are women running around with just pasties on prime time. I once read in a book about Star Trek (TOS) that their costumes were a bit daring for the time, and they wanted exotic-looking outfits, though they had to be conscious of a network rule that forbid showing any part of a breast below the nipple. Top of the breast is OK, bottom of the breast is a no-no. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/47 "2006-11-20T15:31:33Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] Not really. Female apes feed their babies perfectly well without the hypertrophied breasts found in female humans. The large breasts of female humans, not found in most other primates, are primarily a sexual signal. They are much larger than they need to be just to feed babies. Some have theorized that they are intended to mimic buttocks, and first developed as a sexual stimulus when humans began to copulate mainly front-to-front instead of doggie-style. [/QUOTE] [David Brent concurs.](http://youtube.com/watch?v=AYaK5_r7LBY) ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/48 "2006-11-20T15:35:49Z")
[QUOTE=CookingWithGas] “And…tits doesn’t even belong on the list!” I guess I don’t watch enough TV. I have never seen a breast on prime time broadcast TV (i.e., excluding premium cable). Your description makes it sound like there are women running around with just pasties on prime time. I once read in a book about Star Trek (TOS) that their costumes were a bit daring for the time, and they wanted exotic-looking outfits, though they had to be conscious of a network rule that forbid showing any part of a breast below the nipple. Top of the breast is OK, bottom of the breast is a no-no. [/QUOTE] I guess we watch different shows. I’m thinking specifically of Battlestar Galactica, (which has revealed nearly every inch of Caprica Six front and back, although the camera likes her sexy, sexy back and I heartily approve), award shows [remember when Lil Kim lost her mind and wore this?](http://entimg.msn.com/i/gal/LilKim/LilKim66016518_400.jpg) , Dangerous Housewives, Sex in the City…(actually, the last two I don’t watch, but I’ve seen screencaps.) Even advertising for crap like _Girls Gone Wild_ appears with graphics over the nipple but not the entire breast. There was another set of shows which \*used \*to show full breasts in a clinical manner - ER, CSI, etc. - but that changed after Janetgate (immediately after - I noticed the blur in the first ER to air after the Superbowl; the week before there was no blur when they ran a code on a woman.) Now they’ve simply stopped running codes on women characters or keep the camera by the door. [Here’s an article in breasty appearances on television, for more details.](http://www.usatoday.com/life/columnist/popcandy/2004-02-03-pop-candy_x.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/49 "2006-11-20T16:00:26Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] If civilization can be defined as cultures with cities (as it should), then very few civilizations anywhere at any time featured bare-breasted adult women. [/QUOTE] One of those that did was ancient India, as **Kimstu** indicated. Also on the list are ancient Egypt, ancient Greece sometimes, and pre-Islamic Arabia. And postmodern Europe! ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/50 "2006-11-20T16:35:48Z")
Java used to be called “The Bare-breast Island” (untill missionaries got there. Darn it :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/51 "2006-11-20T17:15:52Z")
years ago, i read something that said that bare-breasted women had much lower rates of breast cancer (than their uptight sisters). has anything ever found this to be true? Why would bras act to promote breast cancer? ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/52 "2006-11-20T17:30:40Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Even the ancient Greeks \*mostly \*covered the female breast. [/QUOTE] My knowledge of it is pretty rudimentary\*, but I believe that in Minoa, women went bare-breasted. \*as in “hey, that’s that Greek culture where all the women went bare-breased!” ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/53 "2006-11-20T17:43:53Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] years ago, i read something that said that bare-breasted women had much lower rates of breast cancer (than their uptight sisters). has anything ever found this to be true? Why would bras act to promote breast cancer? [/QUOTE] There was a theory (that may be into tinfoil hat territory, I don’t know) that tight fitting bras inhibit the flow of lymph, leading to a buildup of “carniogenic compounds” in breast tissue. It was put forth in [this book](http://www.amazon.com/Dressed-Kill-between-Breast-Cancer/dp/1930858051), but is not accepted by mainstream research. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/54 "2006-11-20T17:51:39Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] years ago, i read something that said that bare-breasted women had much lower rates of breast cancer (than their uptight sisters). has anything ever found this to be true? Why would bras act to promote breast cancer? [/QUOTE] Cancer (of any form) is typically something that occurs later in life. I’ll hazard a guess that women who go around bare-breasted tend to be from “primative” cultures where most people die before cancer becomes a concern. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2006, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/55 "2006-11-20T18:10:39Z")
[QUOTE=Sublight] My knowledge of it is pretty rudimentary\*, but I believe that in Minoa, women went bare-breasted. \*as in “hey, that’s that Greek culture where all the women went bare-breased!” [/QUOTE] Right, which is why I said “mostly”, as most don’t really consider Minoan culture to be Greek. " > **[Minoa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoa)** > > Minoa (Greek: Μινώα, romanized: Minóa .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}Greek pronunciation: \[miˈnoa\]) was the name of several Bronze-Age port cities on the coasts of the Aegean islands Crete, Paros, Siphnos, Amorgos and Corfu in Greece, as well as the Italian island of Sicily. There was also a Minoa in Gaza, whose name was a later Th... “The Minoans were a pre-Hellenic Bronze Age civilization in Crete in the Aegean Sea, flourishing from approximately 2700 to 1450 BC when their culture was superseded by the Mycenaean culture, which drew upon the Minoans.” Whether or not the Minoan women went about _normally_ bare-breasted has been debated. Certainly, for ceremonial or sporting garb, their interesting bare-breasted costume is legendary, and it’s quite possible it was also every-day garb. The Greek women did not customarily go around bare-breasted: [http://www.uky.edu/AS/Classics/agfc-moyrsmith.html](http://www.uky.edu/AS/Classics/agfc-moyrsmith.html), except perhaps as entertainers. Although it is worth noting that Greek atheletes usually performed nude. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/56 "2006-11-21T04:38:17Z")
Good cite, **Dr. Deth** , I was thinking of the “achiton” pictures on that page you linked to. And even when they wore [chitons](http://www.uky.edu/AS/Classics/pics/p19.gif), they [didn’t](http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/god3/hob_10.64.13.htm) always fasten them up very securely. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/57 "2006-11-21T04:59:49Z")
The chiton page is interesting, but it’s of victorian-era drawings. Are those still considered to be archaeologically sound? ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/58 "2006-11-21T06:16:56Z")
I’m surprised no one’s pointed this out. It is ironic that the nipple, which both genders have, is taboo. Yet the breast itself, which only women have, isn’t. I wonder if you can show on tv a woman’s tit with a male nipple photoshopped-over. P.S. wth is up with tits and piss being on the dirty seven? You can say them freely now, can’t you? Then again, they had the whole ‘shit’ episode of South Park. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/59 "2006-11-21T06:27:20Z")
South Park is on cable. The FCC has no jurisdiction over cable. None of the seven are allowable on network television. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2006, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996/60 "2006-11-21T06:49:18Z")
Not so. Both “tits” and “piss” can and have been used on network prime time programs. Sharon Gless broke the “tits” barrier in 1990, on the premiere episode of her series \* The Trials of Rosie O’Neill\*, when her character said to her analyst, “I think I’ll have my tits done.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-tits-become-obscene/380996.md?page=4)