Guinastasia said “about stealing treasures so they aren’t destroyed in a war…”. I’m not sure who that was directed at, but if it was me, wrt the Elgin marbles, my point was that they WEREN’T stolen. They were bought, from what was at the time the government of Greece.
I agree artifacts should not be stolen for any reason. I think the Elgin marbles should be returned to Greece, as well.
to Rasa:
“I can tell you emphatically that every archaeologist I know hopes and prays to never find a burial.”
That sounds highly…unexpected. Why would a scientist hope NOT to find an object of study? What would be the point of BEING an archaeologist? Wouldn’t even the most conservative still want to excavate a site (and then, maybe, rebury it)? I can’t contradict you, since I don’t know any archaeologists, but I find the attitude you describe very surprising.
Not too long back, archeologists dug up the remains of some of Perry’s men in the arctic (or Antarctic, my memory fails me right now) hauled them up for examination, determined that most died of lead poisoning, interred them and reclosed the graves.
Wasn’t there this little thing about Cromwalls Head recently too? It seems the family had been trying to get it back after thieves stole it and it eventually wound up at a college in England, who finally, after 100 years or so, returned it?
What about those 2 and 3,000 year old bodies found in graves that are being dug up in South America? Anyone get squeamish over chipping million year old human bones out of stone?
I agree, yeah times have changed and countries have the right to keep what is theirs but many ‘grave robbers’ are members of those countries. There’s a big business in fossils now but no one calls the fossil hunters, who wreck archeological sites with explosives, grave robbers. Along the Florida Coast, treasure salvage of wrecks are major business and no one considers those ships tombs.
In fact, so much money has been made off of the salvage that the government set down laws to get a chunk of it.
A lot of the titanic has been destroyed by the salvagers. For example, in trying to obtain the ship’s telegraph, the crow’s nest was destroyed.
The steerage passengers were NOT purposely locked in as you say they were, specifically to keep them from the boats. It was more a question of mass disorganization and gross incompetence.
As much as I loved it, Cameron’s Titanic is NOT exactly your most reliable source.
The last time I readabout the Titanic, the author mentioned the stewards locking the access gates and even waving guns at the 3rd class passengers. It was also mentioned that the first and second class passengers were placed in boats, then the boats launched, often containing less than the 60 people each that they could hold. By the time the steerage passengers got above decks, most, if not all, of the boats were away and the ship was going down.
The point of being an archaeologist is to learn about past cultures through their material remains. I’m sorry, I guess I wasn’t too clear–yes, we want to excavate sites; that is, areas that people lived and worked and celebrated, but not burials. Of course this is a generalization, and is limited to my experience with New England archaeologists regarding Native American burials.
That being said, there’s a few reasons for not wanting to come across a burial site when excavating: the most prosaic of which is time and money concerns. Most archaeology that’s done today is “salvage” archaeology–quick digs to ascertain whether or not a site is present in an area that is to be developed. If a burial is found, all work stops, the state archaeologist and forensics experts are called in, and a full investigation gets underway. Native representatives are also called in, in order to determine cultural affiliation. Then, under careful supervision, the site may continue to be excavated, if all parties agree. Under the Native American Grave Protection and Repatriation Act, all artifacts that are found in association with burials, or are considered “funerary objects” must be inventoried and the inventory made known so that Native people with a cultural affiliation to the burial may repatriate said objects.
The most important reason though is ethics and simple respect. There would be huge outcry if archaeologists started excavating European/white historic cemetaries. The same respect should be afforded all people. The dead were buried with respect and ceremony, and it would be in poor form to go digging them up to put on display in a museum for passers-by to ogle. NAGPRA has gone a long way to putting a stop to this kind of sanctioned graverobbing.
Lastly, archaeologists strive to learn about a culture as a whole. Yes, we’d learn a lot about mortuary customs and burial practices if we excavated more burials, but that’s a small portion of these people’s every day life. So, we try to learn as much as we can about as many aspects of a culture as we can, without infringing on the rights and beliefs of others. That’s the difference between archaeology and looting.
Was that a rant? I hope no one takes it as such. I just spent last weekend at a conference addressing concerns such as how to handle burial sites when excavating, and it gave me a lot to think about. Hope I cleared something up.
The guns were not used at the gates, but when the last couple boats were being launched-and only to prevent a rushing of the boats.
Yes, they were sent away half full. Because many of the men were not trained and no one knew what they were doing and they were afraid the boats would buckle. Also, Lightroller was allowing only women and children, even if it meant the boats would be half empty.
Also, another factor is that many people did not WANT to get in the boats. The Titanic was thought to be unsinkable, and people were too apprehensive about being in a life boat.