# When did we all agree that "DELIVERED" means "LEFT SITTING ON THE GROUND NEAR YOUR HOUSE?" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 17, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272 "2020-12-17T17:10:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/81 "2020-12-18T23:42:16Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > Is Amazon just shelling out for all 36% of those missing packages? 36% of people have had at least **one** package stolen. Out of probably hundreds per person. I’d venture the percentage of packages stolen is in the hundredths of one percent. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/82 "2020-12-18T23:45:08Z")
You can still dispute charges on a debit card (especially if it has a Visa or MC logo on it) and I can guarantee you your bank will reverse the charges. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/83 "2020-12-18T23:46:48Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > You guys are all saying the seller will just refund you without issue, and maybe that is true with Amazon, but it CERTAINLY is not the case with every seller, as I have had experience with packages that show tracking as “delivered” and said tracking was given as proof that they were not liable. Was your package coming from a eBay seller or something? Because they mostly aren’t really businesses and even the ones that are sort of businesses aren’t always well-run. And they are very likely to tell you “it was delivered, end of story”. Which they will also do if you complain that the sneakers you received are counterfeit.(which happened to my son once). Reputable sellers just reship your order if you didn’t get it. They may put a trace on it with the carrier and wait a bit to reship if it’s an expensive item ( I’ve had that happen once and it turned up a few days later) and they might make a claim with the carrier after reshipping my order - I wouldn’t know if they made a claim . Which reminds me- the seller is the customer of the carrier, not the buyer and that’s why the seller has to make the claim with UPS or whatever. And as far as I can tell, that means the title to the item transfers when it is delivered, not shipped. ( apparently referred to as FOB destination ). If title transferred to me when the seller shipped it , I could have made the claim and started the trace- and Amazon couldn’t have. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/84 "2020-12-18T23:46:52Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > If a deliverer makes 200 deliveries in a day, and spends 30 seconds each delivery ringing the bell and waiting for the homeowner to open the door and take the package, that adds 6,000 seconds to his workday, an hour and 40 minutes. Let’s say that’s $20 per hour at time and a half, we’re talking $50 per day of extra cost. Way more that 30 seconds. It takes me at least a minute or two to answer the door. Having done some door knocking, I know it can take 5 minutes or so if it is a two story house. So multiply your figures by at last 4. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2020, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/85 "2020-12-18T23:59:09Z")
What would you sue them for? You can put in a claim and get the value of the goods. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/86 "2020-12-19T00:01:57Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’ve had crazy situations (don’t remember the deets) where something was wrong, and the seller just said, “We’ll issue a refund - keep the item.” Yeah, I get that also on inexpensive items or items, like food, which cant be resold. ---
**Author:** ![TheCuse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thecuse/32/2854_2.png) [@TheCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCuse)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/87 "2020-12-19T00:03:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Way more that 30 seconds. It takes me at least a minute or two to answer the door. Having done some door knocking, I know it can take 5 minutes or so if it is a two story house. So multiply your figures by at last 4. I’m first floor and walking from my computer chair in the living room (where I always sit) to the front door takes 6 seconds. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/88 "2020-12-19T00:05:57Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > “We delivered your package to you!” No, you delivered a package TO MY HOUSE and just left it there, That is indeed to _you_. Your address, isnt it? Signature delivery costs extra. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/89 "2020-12-19T00:20:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That is indeed to _you_ . Your address, isnt it? Signature delivery costs extra. So presuming that, then Amazon would not refund me if it was stolen before I could pick it up…? ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/90 "2020-12-19T00:22:22Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > You can still dispute charges on a debit card (especially if it has a Visa or MC logo on it) and I can guarantee you your bank will reverse the charges. This has always been true with both of my debit cards, when a local bank and the other a national bank. I have never had PayPal refuse to credit me either if a package went missing, regardless of the circumstances. eBay can be a crapshoot and occasionally requires jumping through more hoops-then again I’m very selective about what eBay sellers I buy from-only established ones with very high review ratings. Ebay is not what it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/91 "2020-12-19T00:23:36Z")
As a good customer service gesture they almost always do. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/92 "2020-12-19T01:04:28Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > It’s worth noting that a lot of these companies seem to be banking on you just giving up because there’s no simple solution to contact them Well, my problem was an extra item in my house that i hadn’t been charged for, and that was only worth about ten or twenty bucks. I might have tried harder if I had a more serious problem. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/93 "2020-12-19T01:27:30Z")
Amazon charges their vendors (the companies that sell products to Amazon which Amazon sells themselves out of their distribution centers) **a 20% fee** up front to cover returned or damaged or lost merchandise. So don’t think that Amazon is being generous or losing money when they refund the purchase price on a mis-shipped item. They’ve already been paid for it. You can bet they’re not refunding 20% of all their sales. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/94 "2020-12-19T01:29:46Z")
I live out in the sticks. It’s on a state highway with a Dollar General (they just sprout up these days) and a convenience store close by, so traffic noises and horn honks are par for the course. My issue in the past has been when USPS tried to deliver packages that wouldn’t fit in the mailbox. The driver would pull into my drive and toot the horn a couple times. Then he/she would just leave a note in the box telling me it would be at the post office (an 18 mile round trip). I hear horns a’honkin frequently due to the highway out front, so I didn’t realize what was afoot. When I suggested at the post office that a knock on the door would have solved the problem, I was informed that rural route carriers are not required to exit their vehicles. Dogs, they said. There may be dogs… I have learned to be alert for deliveries and they seem to be getting better at leaving stuff on my back porch. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/95 "2020-12-19T01:47:59Z")
> [@BippityBoppityBoo](#): > > > [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > > > You can still dispute charges on a debit card (especially if it has a Visa or MC logo on it) and I can guarantee you your bank will reverse the charges. > > This has always been true with both of my debit cards, when a local bank and the other a national bank. I have never had PayPal refuse to credit me either if a package went missing, regardless of the circumstances. > > eBay can be a crapshoot and occasionally requires jumping through more hoops-then again I’m very selective about what eBay sellers I buy from-only established ones with very high review ratings. Ebay is not what it used to be. Ah this is great to know, good info. I do, however, wonder how does one prove you didn’t receive something. It seems like a vulnerable position where if they challenged you, there’s no real way to prove you are not in possession of the item. But I assume they operate presuming both parties are in good faith. Ebay is def. not the place it once was. I haven’t made many purchases from there in a while until recently and I’ve had issues with every single one. I also discovered people are selling their established accounts to scammers as well as the fact there is a market to buy fake positive feedback, so in my cases their “well established and trusted seller” status was fraudulent and they were ready to cash out on the scams. > [@needscoffee](#): > > Amazon charges their vendors (the companies that sell products to Amazon which Amazon sells themselves out of their distribution centers) **a 20% fee** up front to cover returned or damaged or lost merchandise. So don’t think that Amazon is being generous or losing money when they refund the purchase price on a mis-shipped item. This is the kind of post I was looking for to scratch this mental itch, and goes a long way in explaining how Amazon can be so cavalier with refunds. I think we’ve established losing an Amazon package is a different animal that literally any other seller. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/96 "2020-12-19T02:51:18Z")
How does Amazon charge the vendors who sell them products ? I think you must be talking about the fees that Amazon charges Amazon marketplace sellers who use" fulfilled by Amazon " - but they don’t sell the products to Amazon. The seller ships the products to Amazon, which stores it ,ships it, and provides customer service and return processing, For a fee of couse, but I doubt if it’s 20%. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/97 "2020-12-19T03:09:50Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > I think we’ve established losing an Amazon package is a different animal that literally any other seller. I don’t think we have. Amazon has ben mentioned the most, but I’ve had other companies reship or refund when I didn’t receive a package. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/98 "2020-12-19T03:18:22Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > How does Amazon charge the vendors who sell them products ? I think you must be talking about the fees that Amazon charges Amazon marketplace sellers who use" fulfilled by Amazon " - but they don’t sell the products to Amazon. The seller ships the products to Amazon, which stores it ,ships it, and provides customer service and return processing, For a fee of couse, but I doubt if it’s 20%. No, I’m talking about “Amazon Vendors”, vendors who sell directly to Amazon. I worked for 5 years for a specialty gourmet company that sold hundreds of thousands of dollars of merchandise annually to Amazon, which then sold it themselves. I promise you, we were billed 20% _in addition_ to what we charged them for the products – their standard fee to cover mistakes. Amazon was trying to raise it to 22% when I left in 2017. I don’t know if they ended up doing it or not. I don’t know how Amazon handles their “fulfilled by Amazon” merchants, as that wasn’t what we did. Nor do I know how they handle regular “Amazon Sellers”. What was most frustrating was how often Amazon messed up - the customers would receive poorly packaged product that was smashed, or they received past-date merchandise Amazon must have found on a back shelf somewhere. So we were paying Amazon for their own mistakes. (We knew this because customers would call us up to complain, not realizing their beef was with Amazon, not us.) I could go on. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/99 "2020-12-19T03:23:49Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > No, I’m talking about “Amazon Vendors”, vendors who sell directly to Amazon. I worked for 5 years for a specialty gourmet company that sold hundreds of thousands of dollars of merchandise annually to Amazon, which then sold it themselves. I promise you, we were billed 20% _in addition_ to what we charged them for the products – their standard fee to cover mistakes. Amazon was trying to raise it to 22% when I left in 2017. I don’t know if they ended up doing it or not. That sounds like they essentially paid your company 80% of what you wanted to charge. Is that correct? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272/100 "2020-12-19T03:43:54Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > That sounds like they essentially paid your company 80% of what you wanted to charge. Is that correct? Yes. If you want to play, you have to pay. They figure you’ll gratefully make it up in the increased sales volume you’ll get by them selling your product. Which was pretty much true in our case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-all-agree-that-delivered-means-left-sitting-on-the-ground-near-your-house/928272.md?page=6)