# When Did We Get So Hateful? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 12, 2018, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664 "2018-02-12T02:13:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/41 "2018-02-12T18:17:21Z")
The ubiquity of the Internet, with all of its non-vetted sources of bullshit mixed in with the fact-based ones, does seem to have a lot to do with it, I agree. Even if you can’t get Fox or its imitators on your TV, you can at least read the comments section from whatever sites provide you comfort and reassurance. It’s easy to avoid the others. That change overlapped the networks’ realization, during the Clinton Administration, that [TV news could be a profit center](http://niemanreports.org/articles/the-transformation-of-network-news/), and therefore had to be. That meant gutting their former senses of journalistic integrity, eliminating the Fairness Doctrine, and pandering to numbers of viewers instead of informing them. Fox was just the first to go all-out, and proved the Big Lie works even here. > [@E-DUB](#): > > one that looks back with nostalgia. To a time when the races and the wimmenfolk knew their places. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/42 "2018-02-12T18:57:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > the Left had pretty much a monopoly on the media… > > What started the slide was Reagan. The MSM hated him … the lefties in the MSM explained, over and over…Clinton’s inability to tell the truth on a bet, plus his zipper problems, and the discovery of the GOP that they could stop him from increasing the budget deficit… > > Etc. You’re providing evidence of the results, not the causes. The ellipsis here change the message of the quote. It doesn’t seem to be intentional, more for brevity, however I’d recommend not mixing in multiple different sentences like this where the subject changes. This however, is too far: > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That includes following the traditional RW alternative-facts approach that pretends Clinton didn’t produce budget _surpluses_. Just for one example. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > All of that, including the Fed chairman cautioning against “irrational exuberance”, stemmed from the 1993 Budget Act, didn’t it? Now tell us how many Republicans voted for it. Here, I’ll save you the trouble: 0. > > Alternative facts, your people call them. I find it ironic in a thread asking when we became so hateful you show no compunction for engaging in this manner. This is a warning for accusing another poster of lying. This is not permitted in this forum. If you feel you must, the BBQ Pit is right around the corner. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/43 "2018-02-12T19:14:16Z")
Please. This thread is _about_, among other things but at core, respect for factuality, and the lack of same being integral to the causes of political hatred we are discussing. Obviously there’s a way you \*will \*accept to point out that a statement is not derived from fact. It would be helpful to us all to inform us what that is. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/44 "2018-02-12T19:23:54Z")
FWIW, a thread to discuss the warning mentioned above is [here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=849127). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/45 "2018-02-12T19:26:03Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Please. This thread is _about_, among other things but at core, respect for factuality, and the lack of same being integral to the causes of political hatred we are discussing. > > Obviously there’s a way you \*will \*accept to point out that a statement is not derived from fact. It would be helpful to us all to inform us what that is. Thank you. You would find [this link](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=818214) informative, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/46 "2018-02-12T21:11:42Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Add in another 5000 families with a net worth over $100 million, plus another 70,000 or so “ultra high net worth” individuals worth over $30 million. > > But it’s not just these wealth families that constitutes a “class”. It is also the institutions and organizations that these individuals create and participate in that perpetuates a “class” structure. It is also their ability to pass on advantage to their offspring. Right. Not only are extreme plutocrats\* a class, they acquired class consciousness a LONG time ago, quite a bit earlier than the working class at that. That’s the kind of thing you can see on shows like Peaky Blinders or Downton Abbey and all those shows focusing on the late 19th/early 20th. There are always industrialist toffs scoffing that so-and-so whom Effie wants to marry is not “one of us” or “the wrong sort” - and that’s class writ large. Class was (and still bloody well is, ask the Kochs) at work with things like union breaking, political lobbying to further one’s class at the expense of others, furthering monopolies and economic inequalities etc… Socialism, Maxism, unions, antitrust laws and so on were all created in \*response \*to top-to-bottom class warfare. The bourgeoisie created class consciousness amongst the proles through systematic abuse, oppression and privilege ; and counter-revolution pre-dates revolution, always, no matter how unintuitive that seems. One of the miracles of the modern era is that the plutocrats have seemingly been successful in destroying the working class’ class consciousness while hanging onto theirs. Not sure how or when _that_ happened. - that sounds like an MTV show, doesn’t it ? “eXtreme Plutocracy - what dumb thing will they buy next or demand be remade out of diamonds and truffles ?!” ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/47 "2018-02-12T21:20:09Z")
This thread is hilarious. Remarkable, really, how the entirety of the fault for the undesirable climate always just happens to lie with those aligned opposite the writer politically! So here’s **Shodan** , spinning himself a pat little fable about how it’s all the fault of the left, and there’s half a dozen posters on the other side, with pat little fables of their own about how it’s all the fault of the right. And we toss out Rush Limbaugh and the “MSM” and we certainly never take any of the blame for ourselves. No, we turned into dicks because Rush Limbaugh or Anderson Cooper forced us to. What choice did we have? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/48 "2018-02-12T21:21:09Z")
I don’t know. I’m a liberal democrat who is guilty of his onw share of hate and contempt. Personally, I think in the 80s and 90s the right wing was taken over by authoritarians, the religious right and conspiracy theorists. After that happened the left reacted with disgust and contempt for the right starting under the Bush jr admin. Plus I think civil rights (esp gay rights) picked up a bit in the last 20 years, and the contempt people feel for those they feel are anti-civil rights has picked up. Now here we are. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/49 "2018-02-12T21:27:52Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > This thread is hilarious. Remarkable, really, how the entirety of the fault for the undesirable climate always just happens to lie with those aligned opposite the writer politically! So here’s **Shodan** , spinning himself a pat little fable about how it’s all the fault of the left, and there’s half a dozen posters on the other side, with pat little fables of their own about how it’s all the fault of the right. And we toss out Rush Limbaugh and the “MSM” and we certainly never take any of the blame for ourselves. No, we turned into dicks because Rush Limbaugh or Anderson Cooper forced us to. What choice did we have? Yeah I know. People use their own partisan slant to push an agenda. I do think part of the reason for incivility is that now both sides fully feel that if the other side is in power, then pain and suffering are going to ensue. Democrats in power? Abortions everywhere, street crime out of control, terrorists emboldened, national defenses down, our political enemies emboldened, economy on the brink of collapse due to debt and regulation. Republicans in power? Endless unnecessary wars, cuts to programs for the poor and middle class, suppression of civil and human rights, emboldening of the plutocrats. Both sides now feel when the other party is in power, people are going to be miserable and in constant states of vulnerability, oppression, pain and suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/50 "2018-02-12T22:41:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, it is good to have other viewpoints even on the SDMB, because ignorance fights on the liberal side a good deal of the time. Even if it infuriates those in the MSM and elsewhere, who want ignorance to win, providing it’s liberal ignorance. Funny how you can talk about ignorance while advancing the most ignorant and partisan of all possible viewpoints. That signature is getting really annoying. I keep wanting to add my own: ‘Disregards, Ace;’ but you’re not the only one I answer. If those are your regards, I’d hate to see your dislike. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2018, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/51 "2018-02-12T23:41:34Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > There are other threads for massaging bothsidesism, or you can start your own. This one involves respect for factuality. I don’t need your permission to post in this or any other thread. Don’t like what I have to say? Don’t read it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/52 "2018-02-13T00:18:52Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > While I do agree that in past days the hate was stronger (there even was a civil war) there was in more recent times more chances at effective government and compromises based on positions that had independent support. IMHO that time was when Bob Dole decided to get into politics and so evenly handed on the issues where the Dems and Reps that he had to ask his mentor what party should he join to make a difference. Nowadays he would ([and was](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/05/us/despite-doles-wish-gop-rejects-disabilities-treaty.html)) spat on by the party that he belonged for so long. > > With the embrace of conservative religions, anti-science and media (including the internet) that is being corrupted by powerful interests, many compromises that were possible before are not now, because powerful interests press most of the current Republicans to not have any use for democracy and even (ironically) Republicanism. > [@Scumpup](#): > > OTOH, JFK would be unacceptable to today’s Democratic party. Both parties change over time. Both are in particularly shrill phases where ideological purity trumps all just now. As others showed JFK would be acceptable, heck, even Hillary does make a mockery of your point, there was little purity on her and yet most people did vote for her. And the point here is that it is not quite “on the other hand” as if it they were equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/53 "2018-02-13T00:29:54Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As others showed JFK would be acceptable, heck, even Hillary does make a mockery of your point, there was little purity on her and yet most people did vote for her. > > And the point here is that it is not quite “on the other hand” as if it they were equivalent. Who showed that? Was it in this thread? And are you sure a hard core cold warrior and skirt chaser like JFK would pass purity tests today? For real now, not just to win the thread. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/54 "2018-02-13T01:09:15Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Who showed that? Was it in this thread? And are you sure a hard core cold warrior and skirt chaser like JFK would pass purity tests today? For real now, not just to win the thread. I think that you truly missed spectacularly that Hillary was criticized by many for standing by her husband. Many did actually see that and still voted for her. And as the Russians showed, they sure can change, but maintain a lot of things to dislike them for from the cold war era (the more things change…) And Hillary was willing to confront them, unlike the current White House resident that is willing to spill a lot to them. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/55 "2018-02-13T01:16:53Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As others showed JFK would be acceptable, heck, even Hillary does make a mockery of your point, there was little purity on her and yet most people did vote for her. If they saw it they didn’t voice much objection to it. Mostly what you heard from the left was mockery of the right for disliking her for not standing by her man…or in other words, the opposite of what you just said. People voted for Hillary to keep illegal immigration flourishing, social benefits flowing, and identity politics in the fore. I’d be surprised if more than 20% of Hillary’s votes came from people who actually liked or admired her. Any other candidate with a “D” before their name would have drawn the same or greater number of votes. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/56 "2018-02-13T01:23:13Z")
> [@starving artist](#): > > . Any other candidate with a “d” before their name would have drawn the same or greater number of votes. qft +1 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/57 "2018-02-13T01:34:34Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If they saw it they didn’t voice much objection to it. Mostly what you heard from the left was mockery of the right for disliking her for not standing by her man…or in other words, the opposite of what you just said. People voted for Hillary to keep illegal immigration flourishing, social benefits flowing, and identity politics in the fore. I’d be surprised if more than 20% of Hillary’s votes came from people who actually liked or admired her. Any other candidate with a “D” before their name would have drawn the same or greater number of votes. Here’s the thing…and I hope there were a lot more like me who did this. I asked myself this question: Which of the viable candidates for President would do a better job? And I voted accordingly. Now, as it happens, I do like Hillary. I think she’s the ultimate example of a political figure being fucked over by her enemies. And I like the fact that she actually, you know, studied an issue instead of seat-of-the-pants reactionism and blatant bullshit when it turned out that that ignorant decision turned out to be not just wrong but spectacularly so. Unfortunately, there are clearly enough of P.T. Barnum’s people that, no matter what I did, I’d get stuck with an image- and dignity-destroying pile of the worst of human motivations for a head of state. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/58 "2018-02-13T01:35:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > If they saw it they didn’t voice much objection to it. Mostly what you heard from the left was mockery of the right for disliking her for not standing by her man…or in other words, the opposite of what you just said. People voted for Hillary to keep illegal immigration flourishing, social benefits flowing, and identity politics in the fore. I’d be surprised if more than 20% of Hillary’s votes came from people who actually liked or admired her. Any other candidate with a “D” before their name would have drawn the same or greater number of votes. Regarding her standing by Bill, you sound like if you want to contradicting in me, that is not the case here. As even others noted a different democrat would had beat Trump because in the end several liberal voters decided not to show up to vote for her. As for immigration, that point of yours is silly when one considers that deportations increased during the previous administration, social benefits are not really disliked, that continues to be pandering coming from many Republicans in power. And identity politics is still more the territory of the Trump followers: > **[Alt-right leader Richard Spencer says Trump is 'first step' toward identity...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/richard-spencer-trump-identity-politics-1.3940205)** > > Alt-right leader Richard Spencer says Trump is not "the answer" but is the "first step" toward identity politics. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/59 "2018-02-13T01:46:41Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > qft +1 Not quite true, as I noted, SA is hung up on the “purity” point; not the one I was making. Again, Hillary was not “pure” as her connections to Wall Street also made many liberals weary. Again, I was replying to the idea that all liberals just go for purity tests or shrill phases just like the Republicans. So, again, not the same. And still again: the parties are not the same overall regarding who is the party that nowadays is kowtowing to the religious right, to anti-science followers, to conspiracy minded groups and even bona fide fascists. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664/60 "2018-02-13T01:48:24Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not quite true, as I noted, SA is hung up on the “purity” point; not the one I was making. Again, Hillary was not “pure” as her connections to Wall Street also made many liberals weary. > > Again, I was replying to the idea that all liberals just go for purity tests or shrill phases just like the Republicans. So, again, not the same. And still again: the parties are not the same overall regarding who is the party that nowadays is kowtowing to the religious right, to anti-science followers, to conspiracy minded groups and even bona fide fascists. Right. Your party is better. Right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-we-get-so-hateful/808664.md?page=4)