# When did you figure out the twist in "The Sixth Sense?" \[edited thread title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 5, 2013, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377 "2013-08-05T06:51:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2013, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/101 "2013-08-06T23:12:04Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Well said. I propose the dichotomy “empathic” versus “analytic” viewer responses to describe this (and again, one viewer can be either at different viewings). Thanks, and yes, those are good terms to describe it. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/102 "2013-08-07T12:34:01Z")
Towards the end, during the school play scene, but I can’t remember what exactly made me understand what was going on. I’d need to watch again this scene, I guess. When I think of it : is the kid aware that the main character is dead, in your opinion? I don’t remember the movie well enough to tell. ETA : I was aware there was a twist. My friends and I walked in the theater with the intent of figuring it out. Since it nevertheless took me almost all the movie to understand, I guess I would never had otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/103 "2013-08-07T13:00:06Z")
I believe the kid knew all along that the main character was dead. In fact, he probably saw him with the huge, gaping wound and blood all over. However, his experience dealing with kids who might be frightened by him allowed the kid to communicate without being terrified. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/104 "2013-08-07T13:04:55Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > When I think of it : is the kid aware that the main character is dead, in your opinion? Yes. Every clue is plain as day once you know the twist. He is afraid of Crowe from the start, but it’s cleverly implied that his nerves are just typical solitary kid behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/105 "2013-08-07T14:14:05Z")
At least 11 years before seeing the movie. I say “at least” because I’ve yet to see it. But I was spoiled at least by age 17. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/106 "2013-08-07T14:36:03Z")
I voted “At the End” but I can’t remember if I suspected it earlier. There is a scene where Dr. Crowe visits Cole at home and his mother doesn’t acknowledge he’s even there which struck me as odd. I do remember thinking that the movie was going in a different direction so the twist was somewhat unexpected in that I thought it would end differently. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/107 "2013-08-07T15:15:16Z")
> [@diggerwam](#): > > When the filmmaker wanted me too. Blew me away. Totally sucked in. (Been meaning to address this.) What if MNS assumed people would pick it up early in the film and was surprised when people thought it was a twist ending? If all you had to go on was the film itself, it isn’t clear when MNS wanted the audience to figure it out. Maybe the hospital scene, maybe earlier. Note that Word of God explanations about intent are all too frequently bogus. A lot of film makers have made claims about something in their films that wasn’t what they had originally intended. To a certain extent, you can’t really make a definite statement like the above. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/108 "2013-08-07T18:14:19Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > (Been meaning to address this.)What if MNS assumed people would pick it up early in the film and was surprised when people thought it was a twist ending? I actually called him and asked just now. He said: “Wait, what, he’s a ghost?” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/109 "2013-08-07T20:09:08Z")
> [@Accidental\_Martyr](#): > > I figured it out during the scene where he meets his wife for dinner and she gets up and leaves without acknowledging him or speaking to him. I said to myself, “Oh, he’s not really there. He must have died when he was shot at the beginning.” I only watched this movie once, but I seem to recall noticing her lack of reaction to him and thinking the same thing: “Oh, he must actually be dead.” ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/110 "2013-08-08T06:03:55Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > What if MNS assumed people would pick it up early in the film and was surprised when people thought it was a twist ending? > > If all you had to go on was the film itself, it isn’t clear when MNS wanted the audience to figure it out. Maybe the hospital scene, maybe earlier. > > Note that Word of God explanations about intent are all too frequently bogus. A lot of film makers have made claims about something in their films that wasn’t what they had originally intended. > > To a certain extent, you can’t really make a definite statement like the above. Whoosh? It’s pretty clear it’s meant to be a twist and that you’re supposed to, or will probably, realize it only at the end. After the wedding ring drops through Crowe’s hand, it flashes back through various scenes Crowe was in, which you now see differently with the new information that he’s a ghost. It doesn’t flash back to scenes where the information that he’s a ghost doesn’t particularly change the interpretation of what happened e.g. scenes where Cole and Crowe are alone. Over the top of all this there is the voiceover of Cole saying “…they don’t know they’re dead…” etc. Then we go back to the original shooting, but see more than we did at the start of the film, this time showing that he actually died. If you got the twist earlier than that, great, well done. But it’s pretty clear that there was a twist and MNS believed, at the least, that a large proportion of the audience wouldn’t have realized it until the end. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/111 "2013-08-08T14:20:57Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Whoosh? I don’t think this is a whoosh. It refers to an approach in literary criticism often referred to as the “intentional fallacy”, from the title of an [essay](http://faculty.smu.edu/nschwart/seminar/Fallacy.htm) by W.K. Wimsatt and Monroe Beardsley, who argue that: [QUOTE=Wimsatt & Beardsley, 1954] […] “the design or intention of the author is neither available nor desirable as a standard for judging the success of a work of literary art.” [/QUOTE] In short, the author cannot be constructed from the text, and reconstructing the author’s intention is neither possible nor the point of reading. The text is the only source of meaning. The author is outside of the text, and his or her intention is fundamentally unnecessary to the reader’s interpretation. There may be meaning in the work which the author did not intend to put there, and he or she may have failed to include the meaning which was intended. Point is, it doesn’t matter. The work can and should best be interpreted on its own. The corollary to this is that the idea of “Word of God” is bogus. There’s no sense in going to the author for a definitive interpretation of a text. In other words, if J.K. Rowling thinks Dumbledore is gay, she’s entitled to her own opinion as much as anyone, but if she didn’t put it in the book, well, sucks to be her, the reader is also entitled to his or her own interpretation. Concerning the movie under discussion: If I were to call up Shyamalan and ask him about the twist, and he says he never intended there to be a twist, and he’s just a rubbish writer who put it in by accident, the twist doesn’t magically go away. The work is there, and that’s what must be interpreted. Intention makes no difference. ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/112 "2013-08-08T15:05:56Z")
Yeah but when you are talking about a mystery “reveal” then one must conclude that the author/director intended it exactly as that. Otherwise, you’d have to conclude that Agatha Christie doesn’t care if the reader knows whodunnit by the second chapter. I say, no. The parlor scene where Poirot unmasks the murderer and explains the how and the why is exactly where the author wanted you to find out/understand. (How well that is accomplished is another matter.) So, despite\*\* ftg\*\*'s protestations otherwise, I believe I can safely conclude M. Night wanted the reveal to be exactly like he did, for the reasons \*\*Mijin \*\*provided. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/113 "2013-08-08T15:38:31Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > In short, the author cannot be constructed from the text, and reconstructing the author’s intention is neither possible nor the point of reading. In this thread we’ve used descriptions of the film _having_ a twist, and MNS _putting a twist in the film_, interchangeably. If the distinction matters that much, then fine, let me clarify my position; I think the film clearly has a twist as evidenced by the big reveal at the end. But yeah, I’m also less interested in what the author’s intention was. I would however dispute that we can say nothing at all about their intentions – that would be holding films up to a much higher standard of proof than just about any other medium or situation. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/114 "2013-08-08T16:07:30Z")
> [@Just\_Ed](#): > > That some people enjoy themselves more doing that analysis the first time through is obvious; I’m simply not one of them. But the disconnect between those two mindsets leads to conversations where one says “How did you not see that coming?” and the response is “Because I wasn’t looking for it!” Both of these people are seeing the same movie and responding to the storytelling in their preferred way; neither is necessarily smarter or more perceptive than the other. I agree, totally. And it is kind of insulting when people say “Well, if you had just been paying attention”…I was paying attention. I was totally focused and enraptured by the movie (if it is a good one) and I don’t analyze until second viewings. Same with books. I like to be taken for a ride. I love that moment of SURPRISE! Neither way is better except in individual preferences. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/115 "2013-08-08T16:07:43Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > In this thread we’ve used descriptions of the film _having_ a twist, and MNS _putting a twist in the film_, interchangeably. > > If the distinction matters that much, then fine, let me clarify my position; I think the film clearly has a twist as evidenced by the big reveal at the end. Obviously. To be honest, I just get this uncontrollable eyebrow twitch whenever author intention is brought up, and it only goes away after I post something similar to my post above. It can be an interesting topic, though. Probably deserves a thread of its own. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/116 "2013-08-09T13:37:26Z")
Well, this thread has certainly generated a couple of interesting hijacks. > [@Anaamika](#): > > I agree, totally. And it is kind of insulting when people say “Well, if you had just been paying attention”…I was paying attention. I was totally focused and enraptured by the movie (if it is a good one) and I don’t analyze until second viewings. Same with books. I like to be taken for a ride. I love that moment of SURPRISE! Neither way is better except in individual preferences. Yes; it was **ftg** ’s casual aside (“At that point anyone remotely paying attention will get it.”) followed by **Frylock** ’s comment and your first post here that prompted my first response. Probably also a topic that could be its own thread. > [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > Obviously. To be honest, I just get this uncontrollable eyebrow twitch whenever author intention is brought up, and it only goes away after I post something similar to my post above. > > It can be an interesting topic, though. Probably deserves a thread of its own. Thanks for that Wimsatt & Beardsley quote. Every time this comes up, I have this very vague memory of some interview I once read with Isaac Asimov, who was asked about what his fans read into his fiction. His answer was very much along those lines (and I don’t doubt Asimov was aware of that); that whether he intended a meaning or not, if it was reasonably derived from the text it was a valid conclusion, and his opinion as author was irrelevant. Which I contrast with author Thomas Harris’ reaction to the criticism of how he developed the character of Clarice Starling by declaring something along the lines of “I wrote her; she’s my character, not yours.” ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/117 "2013-08-09T14:06:21Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Yes. Every clue is plain as day once you know the twist. He is afraid of Crowe from the start, but it’s cleverly implied that his nerves are just typical solitary kid behaviour. Later Cole says to Crowe, “You’re not like the others. You’re nice.” Most viewers (moi’) would assume “others” = therapists Cole has undoubtedly had over the years, not ghosts. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/118 "2013-08-09T14:18:27Z")
> [@Just\_Ed](#): > > Which I contrast with author Thomas Harris’ reaction to the criticism of how he developed the character of Clarice Starling by declaring something along the lines of “I wrote her; she’s my character, not yours.” Always reminds me of the story about Agatha Christie: a lot of folks read A MURDER IS ANNOUNCED and figured, okay: you say Miss Hinchcliffe is a ‘mannish’ woman who has no use for the opposite sex, and who lives with a female housemate she truly cares for, no matter that they bicker like an old married couple, and – yeah, okay, we get it; they’re supposed to be lesbians, right? We’re inferring what you’re implying, ma’am; nicely done, if a bit unsubtle. _Not so,_ said Christie; _I’m implying nothing of the sort; after all, I simply based them on two real-life women I know, who certainly aren’t gay, but who just happen to live together like a married couple and have no use for men, is all. Oh, how they’d laugh at your silly reading of their characteristics, I’m quite sure! Especially the ‘femme’ one, who giggles quite a lot more than the ‘butch’ one!_ I swear, it’s like – well, it’s like re-watching Malcolm Crowe in all those scenes once you know he’s missing the point. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/119 "2013-08-09T14:19:56Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Whoosh? > > It’s pretty clear it’s meant to be a twist and that you’re supposed to, or will probably, realize it only at the end. > > After the wedding ring drops through Crowe’s hand, it flashes back through various scenes Crowe was in, which you now see differently with the new information that he’s a ghost. > It doesn’t flash back to scenes where the information that he’s a ghost doesn’t particularly change the interpretation of what happened e.g. scenes where Cole and Crowe are alone. > Over the top of all this there is the voiceover of Cole saying “…they don’t know they’re dead…” etc. > > Then we go back to the original shooting, but see more than we did at the start of the film, this time showing that he actually died. > > If you got the twist earlier than that, great, well done. But it’s pretty clear that there was a twist and MNS believed, at the least, that a large proportion of the audience wouldn’t have realized it until the end. If only **ftg** had been paying the slightest bit of attention, he would have known all this already. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377/120 "2013-08-09T14:25:03Z")
I watched a movie with a film student once, he knew who Kayser soze was in 10 minutes. He said it was just obvious, near as I can tell ruining one movie for me was the only use he’s ever made of that degree so it’s probably for the best I saw The Sixth Sense without him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-figure-out-the-twist-in-the-sixth-sense-edited-thread-title/665377.md?page=7)