# When did you first add the word "dotard" to your vocabulary? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 23, 2017, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031 "2017-09-23T11:26:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/41 "2017-09-24T00:04:42Z")
So long ago that I can’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/42 "2017-09-24T00:11:49Z")
Probably sometimes in my teens and twenties (I’m 64 now). Mostly from reading, but I couldn’t tell you exactly from where. I occasionally use dotage as “I’m in my dotage” but don’t know if I’ve ever used dotard before. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/43 "2017-09-24T02:15:17Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > So, does that make John McCain old Mr. Wilson? 😃 No. Dennis annoys Mr. Wilson. McCain annoys Trump. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/44 "2017-09-24T02:42:15Z")
Browsing the forum and just reading the thread title, my first thought was, “Maybe…LOTRs?” Which I read (along with the Hobbit) back when I was about 12 or 13 y/o. I knew the word when I heard it used in the news recently, and knew its definition, but I haven’t used it myself, ever. ---
**Author:** ![icon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@icon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/icon)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/45 "2017-09-24T04:35:01Z")
I’m another one who maybe/possibly also read it first in LOTRs which I first read ages ago, but it could be from something else as well. I was also surprised that so many did not know its definition. //i\ ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/46 "2017-09-24T07:57:08Z")
I’m not positive but I think I encountered it in one of Mark Twain’s books. If so I would have been maybe nine or ten years old. Since I’m 77 now I’ve known that word for a long time but I don’t think I’ve ever used it. I was surprised that so many people haven’t encountered it. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/47 "2017-09-24T11:08:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Another person who knew the word but has never used it. Which is probably just as well; I just checked and I had the pronunciation wrong. I thought it sounded like daughter-d. But I was wrong. It sounds like doe-terd. I was pronouncing it correctly! Hurray! I have read the word many times, probably dating back to my teens, but to this day, I don’t think I have ever heard it spoken. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/48 "2017-09-24T11:28:34Z")
It’s not a word I use, but I’m 63 and don’t remember a time when I didn’t know the word. This coming winter will mark 50 years since I first read LOTR, fwiw. But I think I’d already encountered it by then. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/49 "2017-09-24T13:05:14Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > So, does that make John McCain old Mr. Wilson? 😃 > [@Colibri](#): > > No. Dennis annoys Mr. Wilson. McCain annoys Trump. So…McCain is…dumb ol’ Margaret? Huh. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/50 "2017-09-24T13:39:02Z")
So just to be clear, Kim did not use the word “dotard,” correct? This was a Korean to English translation, and that particular word was used by the translator? From some of the explanations in this thread, the substance of the insult or comment was that Trump is a cranky, senile, old bastard? Is that fair? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/51 "2017-09-24T14:14:14Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So just to be clear, Kim did not use the word “dotard,” correct? This was a Korean to English translation, and that particular word was used by the translator? > > From some of the explanations in this thread, the substance of the insult or comment was that Trump is a cranky, senile, old bastard? Is that fair? Correct. I don’t know that I’ve ever used the word, but I can’t remember a time when I didn’t know what it meant. Is “doddering” or “dottering” related? Perhaps people have heard that. I was shocked to hear newscasters say they hadn’t heard of it. Where do they find these people? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/52 "2017-09-24T14:46:39Z")
IMO … We’ve pretty well established that “dotage”, “doting”, “doddering”, and “dotty” are all related and commonly known and used by many/most 'Dopers. We’ve also fairly well established that unless you’ve read LOTR or a couple of particular Shakespeare plays you’ve never encountered “dotard”. And of those who know the word, most have never heard it aloud nor ever used it themselves. Which implies, at least to me, that it’s far more archaic than the other related usages. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/54 "2017-09-24T17:22:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Correct. > > Is “doddering” or “dottering” related? Perhaps people have heard that. I was shocked to hear newscasters say they hadn’t heard of it. Where do they find these people? ☹ According to this online English etymology dictionary, dotard is a 14th century word related to the verb ‘dote’ from ca. 1200 which then meant ‘act silly or deranged’ rather than its current meaning. It says dodder appeared in the 17th century from ME daderen ‘to tremble’. > **[doddering | Search Online Etymology Dictionary](https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=doddering)** > > The online etymology dictionary (etymonline) is the internet's go-to source for quick and reliable accounts of the origin and history of English words, phrases, and idioms. It is professional enough to satisfy academic standards, but accessible... ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/55 "2017-09-24T17:58:06Z")
I always assumed it was pronounced like daughter with “do” on the end. Many newscasters seemed to want to pronounce it DOE-tard to rhyme with RE-tard. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/56 "2017-09-24T18:10:03Z")
Also, the word ‘dotage’ appears on this list of the 58,000 most common English words. I guess a lot of people would understand ‘dotard’ based on ‘dotage’ (‘period of life in which a person is old and weak’), and the context, without having seen it specifically. [http://www.mieliestronk.com/wordlist.html](http://www.mieliestronk.com/wordlist.html) ---
**Author:** ![Graymalkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/35a633/32.png) [@Graymalkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Graymalkin)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/57 "2017-09-25T01:49:36Z")
My mother (b. 1921) used it now and then. I always thought it just plain ol’ regular word for a stupid person, and maybe old. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/58 "2017-09-25T04:56:57Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > So just to be clear, Kim did not use the word “dotard,” correct? This was a Korean to English translation, and that particular word was used by the translator? > > From some of the explanations in this thread, the substance of the insult or comment was that Trump is a cranky, senile, old bastard? Is that fair? Well, _someone_ in North Korea used the word. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/59 "2017-09-25T10:49:46Z")
I can’t specifically remember learning it; my guess is that it would have been from some fantasy novel I read as a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2017, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031/60 "2017-09-25T12:36:18Z")
I first encountered the word as a teenager reading a libretto for _The Barber of Seville_. Count Almaviva called Doctor Bartolo a dotard for wanting to marry his love interest Rosina. Even back then I worked out that it means senile old man. Never saw the word again as written. Although I believe I heard Paul Giamatti use it when he played John Adams being cranky at his 90th birthday party. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-did-you-first-add-the-word-dotard-to-your-vocabulary/797031.md?page=2)