# When do we stop wallowing in 9/11? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523 "2011-09-07T18:07:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/81 "2011-09-08T02:23:26Z")
[QUOTE=Sparky the Wonder Spirit] I have plenty of empathy. I just don’t make a big production of it, and set aside time/space to revel in how special I am because I have such feelings about a decade-old event. [/QUOTE] Not exactly what you said though, and not what I was responding too. Had you said this before I wouldn’t have said a thing, since to each his or her own. Some people have strong feelings even after years, some don’t…no worries either way, it’s all good. -XT ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/82 "2011-09-08T02:25:29Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Sure. And I’m a sucker for contrived and manipulative media, especially when it’s happening to real people. And I know that not everyone feels the same way I do. As I said, I’m a live and let live kind of guy. What I was taking exception to in that reply is the chest thumping aspect of (to paraphrase the way I read it) ‘Anyone who feels something during a national tragedy is an obvious idiot…I don’t feel anything during those times. Look how strong and brave me is! _grunt, snuffle_’ > > -XT Fair enough. You and I obviously got different things out of what we’ve read in this thread. Question: Maybe best suited for GD, but I tend to feel out of my depth there: Is it really “happening to real people” if it’s something that happened to them ten years ago, and we’re being manipulated about it NOW (AGAIN?) (STILL?)? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/83 "2011-09-08T02:35:15Z")
> [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](#): > > But we are not _during_ a national tragedy, right now. I think what I and others object to is that the actual decade-old tragedy is being used in (what I see as) a cheap and manipulative way, for very banal political and money-making purposes. Can I interest you in my new 9/11 10th Anniversary Memorial Pet Rock, made from concrete salvaged from Ground Zero? Just three payments of $19.95. ---
**Author:** ![G-SE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f0a364/32.png) [@G-SE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G-SE)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/84 "2011-09-08T02:42:20Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > I dunno. We recently passed the 10th anniversary of the 2000 Bush-Gore election debacle without so much as a whisper from the media. cry more. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/85 "2011-09-08T02:50:45Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > And you don’t think that what I was responding too (i.e. ‘Because I don’t have a martyr complex. Also I’m not a tedious idiot, so I think that pretending I have an “emotional connection” to a national tragedy is childish’) is ‘holier than thou’, ehe? 😛 I specifically said that if one wants to feel that way, hey…whatever floats thy boat. But you take exception to what I’m saying as holier than though. Gotcha. > > Never said it made them evil, old boy. I said that you aren’t human if you don’t feel any empathy at all, and think that any sort of national tragedy is ‘childish’ when you feel emotional about it. > > If you can watch an entire village being washed away in Japan and feel nothing, and if you think that feeling anything about such an event is ‘childish’ then I think that’s a bit pathological, to be honest. But hey, I’m good with a bit of pathology…I’m a live and let live sort of guy. I would appreciate a bit of reciprocity however…if I want to feel emotional about something then that’s really my affair I’d say. > > -XT How much empathy and sorrow have you ever felt for the hundreds of thousands of innocent people we’ve killed in retaliation since 9/11? I admit that 9/11 is too abstract and distant for me to really, deeply grieve about, especially ten years later. When is it going to be ok not to have to pretend to give a fuck anymore. 20 years, 100 years? Do you feel deep sorrow every year on the anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic or Masada or the battle of Gettysburg? When will it finally be patriotically and socially correct to admit that I’m not doubled over with grief and speechless rage every second of every day about 9/11? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/86 "2011-09-08T02:52:22Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Question: Maybe best suited for GD, but I tend to feel out of my depth there: Is it really “happening to real people” if it’s something that happened to them ten years ago, and we’re being manipulated about it NOW (AGAIN?) (STILL?)? [/QUOTE] Their families are still alive…they still have holes in their lives. Even if you don’t know anyone affected by the events (I don’t know anyone in Indonesia, and only have a few friends in Japan, none of who were directly affected…I DO know a few people directly affected by 9/11, and I actually was there after the events as part of a Williams team doing telco volunteer reconstruction work) you can still feel for the families left behind…even if you are being manipulated into feeling for them then and now. I still feel empathy and sorrow for events that happened even hundreds of years ago, but I’m probably a bit pathological myself. I have no problems with people who are sick of 9/11. Contrary to what monstro said, I don’t have a holier than thou attitude about all this. If you don’t want to think about 9/11, or if you don’t care about it, or if you think it’s no big deal, well, that’s your affair…I’m not preaching that everyone has to feel the same way. It would be nice, as I said earlier, if there was some reciprocity on stuff like this, though. Sort of the way I feel about those of a religious bent…I’m good with folks believing in God or gods or whatever. No worries, whatever floats thy boat. I’m not going to try and convert them to my own philosophies, though I’d be happy to discuss (a.k.a. argue) about it if they want. But I expect some reciprocity on this…if I’m not going to cram my agnatheism down their throats I expect them not to cram their religion down mine. -XT ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/87 "2011-09-08T02:54:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How much empathy and sorrow have you ever felt for the hundreds of thousands of innocent people we’ve killed in retaliation since 9/11? > > I admit that 9/11 is too abstract and distant for me to really, deeply grieve about, especially ten years later. When is it going to be ok not to have to pretend to give a fuck anymore. 20 years, 100 years? Do you feel deep sorrow every year on the anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic or Masada or the battle of Gettysburg? When will it finally be patriotically and socially correct to admit that I’m not doubled over with grief and speechless rage every second of every day about 9/11? Uhh, I think nobody has any doubt that any rage you might have isn’t _speechless_, **Dio** ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/88 "2011-09-08T02:58:46Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] How much empathy and sorrow have you ever felt for the hundreds of thousands of innocent people we’ve killed in retaliation since 9/11? [/QUOTE] Oh, definitely none…they all deserved to die. :rolleyes: That what you wanted to hear? The reality is that I felt/feel quite a bit, especially when I see Iraqi or Afghani children crying in fear or pain, or fathers or mothers weeping for lost children, spouses, loved ones, etc. I always felt a lot of empathy for both Iraqi and Afghani civilians and even the fighters killed and wounded, as well as the US and other allied soldiers killed and wounded, but gradually it turned me wholly against both wars…to the point that I’ve become convinced that both wars were a horrible waste and a huge mistake. I think that those who advocated that the US use more ‘police’ type tactics and surgical incursions were right all along. I don’t see why one can’t feel empathy for both the folks who died on 9/11 AND the folks who have died in the various subsequent events that were shaped by that attack. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/89 "2011-09-08T03:02:39Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Oh, definitely none…they all deserved to die. :rolleyes: That what you wanted to hear? I didn’t _want_ to hear anything, I was asking the question. > [@](#): > > The reality is that I felt/feel quite a bit, especially when I see Iraqi or Afghani children crying in fear or pain, or fathers or mothers weeping for lost children, spouses, loved ones, etc. I always felt a lot of empathy for both Iraqi and Afghani civilians and even the fighters killed and wounded, as well as the US and other allied soldiers killed and wounded, but gradually it turned me wholly against both wars…to the point that I’ve become convinced that both wars were a horrible waste and a huge mistake. I think that those who advocated that the US use more ‘police’ type tactics and surgical incursions were right all along. > > I don’t see why one can’t feel empathy for both the folks who died on 9/11 AND the folks who have died in the various subsequent events that were shaped by that attack. Fair enough. Should we do anything at a national level to memorialize the innocent people that we’ve massacred since 9/11? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/90 "2011-09-08T03:10:32Z")
Damn…missed the edit window: [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] When is it going to be ok not to have to pretend to give a fuck anymore. [/QUOTE] Why do you feel that you have to pretend to give a fuck? No one is forcing you to give a fuck about 9/11 or anything else. If you don’t, you don’t. It’s interesting that you think you HAVE to give a fuck though…as if there is some sort of secret police out there ready to turn you in if you don’t pretend to give a fuck about something. Sort of like Der constantly fretting that the Christians are going to get him for his atheism. > [@](#): > > Do you feel deep sorrow every year on the anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic or Masada or the battle of Gettysburg? When I went to Gettysburg I certainly felt quite a bit of sorrow. When I read about the Titanic or the events that happened on Masada I still feel quite a bit of sorrow and empathy. Those things weren’t part of my generation, however. Same with Kennedy’s assassination…I was a baby when it happened, and even though my grandmother DID mourn every year on the date of his death it wasn’t that personal to me. Though seeing him killed still tugs at the heart strings. > [@](#): > > When will it finally be patriotically and socially correct to admit that I’m not doubled over with grief and speechless rage every second of every day about 9/11? You can admit it now if you like. I don’t believe that the thought police will REALLY arrest you and drag you off for re-education if you say that you don’t really care that much about what happened on 9/11. People might look at you funny or step to the other side of the street if you take it to Der Trihs levels, but I’d say if you just change the channel when some bit of 9/11 memorializing comes on you will probably be safe enough. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/91 "2011-09-08T03:14:40Z")
It’s perfectly OK to let a nation commemorate, mourn, and reflect on an anniversary. What’s more shocking is that Ground Zero isn’t, well, rebuilt. “Not giving a fuck” is a heartless position to take. People did die. Yes, people die every day, but the people who did die could’ve just as easily been you, that shit was so senseless. It was a mass murder and it changed the way we do things. I’m not sure if the younger generation (mine?) is more likely to be affected because we grew up with Oklahoma and wtc in elementary and Columbine and 9/11 in secondary school…the latter two really wrecking our thought processes. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/92 "2011-09-08T03:15:04Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Fair enough. Should we do anything at a national level to memorialize the innocent people that we’ve massacred since 9/11? [/QUOTE] We probably will, at some point. Should we? Damned if I know what we ‘should’ do, but personally I wouldn’t have an issue with such a memorial, no more than memorials to atrocities we committed against Native Americans. > [@](#): > > I didn’t want to hear anything, I was asking the question. Sure you did or you wouldn’t have asked such a leading question in such a way. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/93 "2011-09-08T03:22:06Z")
You know, this teenage kid got shot four times in the back near Denver yesterday. Everyone’s forgotten about it. His friends - couple of my students - haven’t, of course. I think it’s fair to say that there are a lot of things we don’t remember, analyze, or pay respects to. Not sure what it is with fives and tens, but a tenth anniversary is a big deal anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/94 "2011-09-08T03:26:18Z")
Is it? I don’t remember such a big deal being made about the 10th anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Bird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Little\_Bird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Bird)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/95 "2011-09-08T03:28:01Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > I think part of it is the round # phenmenon. But I must ask: If you’re not American I certainly get why you’re sick of 9/11, but if you’re American, how can you NOT be effected by 9/11, even 10 years later? :dubious: I’m effected all the fucking time. I doubt a week has gone by since that I haven’t heard a politician invoke the event, or had to deal with ineffective security theater, or heard someone throw all brown or Muslim people on the terrorist pile out of ignorance or fear. And that’s why I’m a little tired of 9-11 and will be avoiding as much media as I can over the next week. Not because people shouldn’t be allowed to mourn on a significant anniversary, but because so many people have co-oped this event for their own personal causes that just hearing someone say “9-11” it makes me wonder what they are trying to sell me. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/96 "2011-09-08T03:29:18Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Not sure what it is with fives and tens, \ Convenient markers for the purposes of commercialization. _“Okay, three… two…one: Somberly Reflect, everyone!”_ _([del]Thirty[/del] no, make that fifteen second Pause; thirty seconds is too much dead air at half a mil per minute)_ _“A very touching and heartfelt moment, ladies and gentlemen; we’ll be back after this:”_ ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/97 "2011-09-08T03:33:50Z")
[QUOTE=Spoke] Is it? I don’t remember such a big deal being made about the 10th anniversary of the Oklahoma City bombing. [/QUOTE] And yet if you do a Google search there were memorials on the 10th anniversary of the OC bombings ([here](http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/waco_okc_anniversary_marked_cheney_clinton_speak.htm) is one link that has Chaney and Clinton both speaking at a memorial service on the 10th anniversary). Was it as big a deal? No…but then the scale of 9/11 was much larger and the effect much deeper on the nation (and the world, considering our subsequent actions) than the OC bombing. And I still see shows on History Channel etc about the OC bombing and Timothy McVeigh. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/13edae/32.png) [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interconnected_Series_of_Tubes)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/98 "2011-09-08T04:00:15Z")
> [@Scissorjack](#): > > For me it was Tuesday. Have my internet babies. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/99 "2011-09-08T04:11:57Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Their families are still alive…they still have holes in their lives. Which is a reason for them to gather together and have their own events, memorial services, family times, religious commemorations and the like. For the rest of us, though, it’s just not necessary that we sit and review the events of the day, that we look at photos from the day and hear the recollections of the first responders (that’s one of the specials that will be on) or watch a documentary about the children whose parents died (another special) or a commemoration narrated by Robert DeNiro (yet another). These things are maudlin. They don’t help the general public in any meaningful way. They don’t bring closure. They don’t help us to understand what happened. They’re not educational, edifying or investigative. They’re tragedy porn. If you’re into that, fine. But it shouldn’t be prime time on the major networks. There’s no good in it. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/100 "2011-09-08T04:33:16Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Well, apparently the TSA seems to think there might be 4 oz. of shampoo up there. Hmm, and I just thought they wanted to p[lay with your balls](http://funnypicdumps.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/funny-friday-osama-bin-laden-joking-about-tsa-and-the-joke-that-is-american-security.jpg). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523.md?page=6)