# When do we stop wallowing in 9/11? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523 "2011-09-07T18:07:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/141 "2011-09-08T20:38:55Z")
I also find it too over the top. It’s everywhere. The problem isn’t the two sides feel differently here, or react differently, it’s that they are both looking down on each other for that difference. It is manufactured and contrived manipulation, some people are sensitive to that. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/142 "2011-09-08T20:51:35Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > It’s been 10 years. When can we stop wallowing in this event? When blacks stop wallowing in slavery, and Jews stop wallowing in the Holocaust. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/143 "2011-09-08T21:09:53Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [nitpick] > > 9/11 did not directly lead to two wars. It led to one war, and it wasn’t (isn’t) even a war in Afghanistan. > > Our going into Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. > > [/nitpick] Bush could not have sold the Iraq war w/o the events of 9/11/01. I don’t know what you mean by “it wasn’t (isn’t) even a war in Afghanistan”. If you’re saying that doesn’t qualify as a war, I disagree. No officially declared war, but we don’t do it that way anymore. We have 100k or more troops over there shooting and killing people. If that isn’t a war, I don’t know what is. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/144 "2011-09-08T22:54:25Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > When blacks stop wallowing in slavery, and Jews stop wallowing in the Holocaust. Right on schedule. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/145 "2011-09-08T23:15:57Z")
People love their tragedy-porn. Any local news station at 11 p.m. proves that. Are car accidents newsworthy? No. Random shootings? Not really. The most sensationalized of child abuse cases? Fuck no. But 9/11? Absolutely, up to a point. And beyond that it’s just gross and indulgent and meant to manipulate our emotions. That’s why I read my news instead of watch it, and pick and choose carefully even then. I’m very well-informed, but there are certain things that are just not important enough to report on constantly. But there comes a time to let it go, and for me that happened around a year or two after the fact. It’s possible to be reverent without turning it into a contest about who is the most “patriotic” or who is sadder about events from 10 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/146 "2011-09-09T00:00:26Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > People love their tragedy-porn. Any local news station at 11 p.m. proves that. Are car accidents newsworthy? No. Random shootings? Not really. The most sensationalized of child abuse cases? Fuck no. > > But 9/11? Absolutely, up to a point. And beyond that it’s just gross and indulgent and meant to manipulate our emotions. That’s why I read my news instead of watch it, and pick and choose carefully even then. I’m very well-informed, but there are certain things that are just not important enough to report on constantly. > > But there comes a time to let it go, and for me that happened around a year or two after the fact. It’s possible to be reverent without turning it into a contest about who is the most “patriotic” or who is sadder about events from 10 years ago. Actually, everything you mentioned is newsworthy, so I strongly disagree with you there. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/147 "2011-09-09T00:16:36Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] One of the reasons we don’t forget 911 is because it has political coinage by some conservatives. Bush, Cheney and Guilliani could not say a paragraph without mentioning it. It justified enormous programs that have been very lucrative. [/QUOTE] So, what you are saying is that no Democrats or liberals are participating in any way with the 9/11 memorials, aren’t making any speeches concerning 9/11 or anything at all to do with 9/11…and that the sole reason we haven’t just put the whole affair from our collective minds is because of conservatives attempting to make political coinage out of it all? Or if Democrats/liberals are mentioning it, it’s only to elicit conservative votes (since everyone knows that Democrats and liberals both pine after the conservative vote!), since only conservatives care about it (or are manipulated into caring about it)? That’s a fascinating observation gonzo. And here I thought that people other than conservatives remembered 9/11… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/148 "2011-09-09T00:56:26Z")
> [@Dingbang](#): > > It is sad and pathetic the way some people want to set themselves apart as iconoclastic and so above the common masses by denigrating and condescending to people who want to mark the anniversary of a tragic event. If you don’t like the memorials, if you don’t like the remembrances, if you don’t feel the need to commemorate a historically significant tragedy, then don’t. Don’t watch the tv coverage, don’t read the newspaper articles and don’t attend any events. You know what else is sad and pathetic? Recreational grieving. [Sean Taylor](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3129406) played safety for the Washington Redskins for a few years before he was shot by someone who had broken into his home. It was a terrible tragedy, in that Taylor had had some problems and was getting past them and was becoming a truly remarkable football player. It was sad, and I was sad for him and his family. Then things started to get weird. People who had no connection to Taylor whatsoever, outside of him having played football for their chosen team, were seen at Redskins Park and FedEx Field creating memorials and murals. Some were openly weeping and wailing, like they were at their kid’s funeral. Sackcloth and ashes would not have seemed out of place. I believe a lot of those people were just grieving recreationally. It gave them a sense of community to all be there together, saddened over the same thing. Bonds, however temporary, were forged. On a much larger scale, the annual 9/11 Grief-fest is pretty much the same thing. But don’t worry, in a generation or two it’ll be renamed to Freedom Day and will be an excellent time to find a good deal on a mattress. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/149 "2011-09-09T02:04:47Z")
> [@Lord\_Ashtar](#): > > You know what else is sad and pathetic? Recreational grieving. > > [Sean Taylor](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3129406) played safety for the Washington Redskins for a few years before he was shot by someone who had broken into his home. It was a terrible tragedy, in that Taylor had had some problems and was getting past them and was becoming a truly remarkable football player. It was sad, and I was sad for him and his family. > > Then things started to get weird. People who had no connection to Taylor whatsoever, outside of him having played football for their chosen team, were seen at Redskins Park and FedEx Field creating memorials and murals. Some were openly weeping and wailing, like they were at their kid’s funeral. Sackcloth and ashes would not have seemed out of place. > > I believe a lot of those people were just grieving recreationally. It gave them a sense of community to all be there together, saddened over the same thing. Bonds, however temporary, were forged. > > On a much larger scale, the annual 9/11 Grief-fest is pretty much the same thing. But don’t worry, in a generation or two it’ll be renamed to Freedom Day and will be an excellent time to find a good deal on a mattress. Yes. All of this. I think most people feel at least a tinge of something when they think about 9/11. The idea that people who are tired of hearing about it are lacking empathy or are just trying to be cool is just hogwash. But the segment of the population that just wants to participate in the spectacle of it all and give the day a certain sacredness that they don’t even give to their own religious holidays…they simply turn people off. Their emotionality just seems a little too much for it not to be ginned up. The OK bombing has been brought up. Now, for some reason that hit me harder than 9/11 did. Perhaps it was because I was a teen when that happened and the idea that you could go work and end up dead was a new concept for me. When all the fund-raising was going on for the 9/11 families–families of stock-brokers as well as janitors–I did a Scooby Doo. Ruh? What made the 9/11 families different than the OK families? Nothing. There was nothing different about them. While all that ugly fighting for money was happening, I kept thinking about the OK bombing. And how you never heard those families making a peep about anything. There was nothing different about either of those families and any family that loses someone to tragedy. Every day, families of first responders grieve over someone they’ve lost. Every day, some random family lights a candle for someone they’ve lost. The only difference between these people and the ones directly affected by 9/11 was that the world was witness to the horror that took their loved ones away. But the lost is just the same and just as senseless all around. Seriously, if I had a family member who was a first responder and they had died on the job on 9/10, I’d feel a bit peeved about all their coworkers being constantly memoralized for 9/11. Those first responders were certainly brave human beings for running into the burning towers, but they were no more braver than any other person serving in the same capacity who happened to die in the line of fire another time, at another place. They are beatified why? Because they happened to die in a spectacle. The others didn’t. Too bad, so sad. No scholarships for their kids. That’s what turns me off. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/150 "2011-09-09T02:34:38Z")
[Never forget. Never forgive.](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d97/Clothahump/09-11A.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/151 "2011-09-09T02:55:05Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > [Never forget. Never forgive.](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d97/Clothahump/09-11A.jpg) “Never forgive” _whom?_ Because I think most of the guys we are supposed to “never forgive” are dead already. Get over it/yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/152 "2011-09-09T05:23:36Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > “Never Forget” could be the collective slogan of the Balkans. I don’t think we should aspire to that score-keeping and grudge-holding mentality. Haw, come on, you may have your flaws, but you’re not up to your knees in a medieval mental mudpit like the Balkans. > [@Clothahump](#): > > [Never forget. Never forgive.](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d97/Clothahump/09-11A.jpg) Ok, never mind. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/153 "2011-09-09T06:53:53Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Yeah, and you also said that if we don’t feel anything about those tragedies you listed, we aren’t human. > > Well, I’m not going to say I’m untouched by all those things. For instance, I did feel something for the Haitians because I have family members who are Haitian (sister’s in-laws). But even then, I wasn’t glued to my TV and wiping away tears. And with Japan, my “pain” was even more diffuse. Should I hang my head low in shame? > > When I watch the news and I hear about a family of four getting killed on the highway, I don’t feel anything either except perhaps, “Hope it wasn’t someone that I know.” > > To me, being evil is actually better than not being human. It may surprise you to learn that many people have difficulty with empathy, and most of them are not psychopaths. It’s not a state that people actually will themselves to be in. To be able to step into someone else’s shoes and wear their pain…it is a skill that comes naturally to some people. Others have to work very hard to develop it. Others die without experiencing it. You don’t have to be sick or non-human to be these people. > > I don’t shit on others for grieving over a national tragedy, so please don’t put me in that pack. But I can see what some posters in this thread are talking about: What’s happening on TV isn’t “grief”. It’s exploitation. Perhaps people who aren’t as attached to the event can see this more rationally. I’m all for ceremonies and moments of silence and all that. People will always have their rituals and need for pomp and circumstance. But if people who do not want their emotions to be exploited have to endure a whole month of retrospectives and emotional testimonies from everyone and their momma…you’re just asking people to eventually get tired of it all. There comes a point when the rest of ya’ll DO come across as holier than thou. Like the sobbing old lady falling in the coffin, who’s cutting evil eyes at the rest of us for not loving the dead as much as she does. > > I don’t believe you want real reciprocity, because if you did you’d stop pathologizing people for not “feeling anything”. I felt bad when Japan experienced its earthquake, as well as Haiti, but if it had been Saudi Arabia, I probably would have felt absolutely nothing. If Hillary Clinton got hit by a bus, I’d feel bad. If Michelle Bachman did, I’d probably wouldn’t. I guess I’m not just a good person for being so inconsistent with my sympathy (sympathy and empathy are not the same). I do understand, however, that people cannot control how they feel. They can control what they do with their emotions and they can withhold judgment of people who do not feel as they do. But you can’t “guilt” people into feeling something they cannot feel. You can’t beat these people over the head with the maudlin and expect them to appreciate it. > > If understanding that there is no “should” in emotions makes me non-human, then I guess you can call me The Terminator. Actually, on the contrary, compared to most of the 9/11 patriot contingent I feel I am the much more empathic and compassionate. I felt the same horror they felt that day, but I had the sense, knowledge, and compassion not to wish to expand it into a vendetta and a war of nations… a nationalist movement that embodied political, religous, racial, and institutionalized hate and hegemonic profit. The sadness and self-righteousness they feel for 9/11 as an event is much more limited and tribal or, shall we say “selective”, than what I feel… they are simply into patriotic masturbation and addicted to having their emotions manipulated. At this point, as a human, I feel much more ashamed, awed, horrified and saddened to the core of my soul that so many more hundreds of thousands of innocents in other places, besides America, have died in this conflagaration, at the hand of my countrymen, as to make 9/11 seem a minor drop in the bucket sapped from an entire tree of hate and fear. It is a senseless war and people profit from it everyday by the base and senseless invocations of 9/11, simply, It’s a distraction, justification, and fig leaf for an unjust, or minimally, unnecessary war. Frankly, I think 9/11 patriots are self centered and have a very limited view of compassion, but a hugely overdeveloped sense of vengeance and victimhood. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/154 "2011-09-09T07:37:26Z")
Potentially unpopular rant: We’ve just been through our _own_ nightmare. We do not need documentaries and retrospectives and other tragedy porn on a dozen different channels, encouraging us to relive _someone else’s_ **ten-year-old** nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/155 "2011-09-09T08:10:29Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I don’t know where you’re living, but the only “near constant” reminder – and I’m not even talking about remembrance, just a reminder – of the attacks are occasionally seeing Virginia license plates with a 9/11 symbol on them, I just can’t say that I often see or hear anything like what you seem to be referring to. 9/11 remembrances are certainly uncommon in the newspapers, other than around this time of year, save for the occasional story like the firefighters not getting health benefits. Exactly. The first I heard of 9/11 was this week. Before that, it was Jon Stewart’s campaign to get aid to the first responders who are still fucking dying because our government doesn’t give a shit about them. And before that, it was the elections. And, yes, that middle thing still gets my goat. In no way should this stuff go away until people are not still dying from it. Oh, and **Argent Towers** , either you don’t know what the word forget means, or you want us to not teach history. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/156 "2011-09-09T08:25:38Z")
I don’t want everyone to literally forget about the Holocaust. But I think that too much of an issue is made that everyone should supposedly “never forget” it. The truth is, people knowing about the Holocaust didn’t stop other genocides from happening after it. It’s an empty sentiment. People should learn about the Holocaust, as they should learn about everything that happened during World War II, and then move on to learning about and focusing on other issues. The same is true of 9/11. It happened It was a national tragedy and it disrupted the country very severely. Let’s move on to other, more currently relevant issues. (Just where did the people who did 9/11 get their money?) ---
**Author:** ![bmasters1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@bmasters1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmasters1)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/157 "2011-09-09T09:30:04Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Sort of the way I feel about those of a religious bent…I’m good with folks believing in God or gods or whatever. No worries, whatever floats thy boat. I’m not going to try and convert them to my own philosophies, though I’d be happy to discuss (a.k.a. argue) about it if they want. But I expect some reciprocity on this…if I’m not going to cram my agnatheism down their throats I expect them not to cram their religion down mine. > > -XT That’s kind of the same way I feel about televangelists, like one from Asheville, NC named Ralph Sexton. I’m good with him believing in God, as I believe we should be (you’re correct about that). What I do not like about him is that he believes, for example, that we should be all about reliving the Jubilees of the Old Testament and visiting the Holy Land of Israel. The way I read what you’re saying, it would be good for him to believe that such has a connection to his life and act accordingly, but if he questions our faith because we don’t believe in such things, that’s something else entirely. Is that what you mean? I hope it is. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 10:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/158 "2011-09-09T10:00:24Z")
Heck, Y2K came and went-and the computers still worked! The 2nd millenium of Jesus came and went-and no rapture! I think we need to take a hard look at our response to 9/11-trillions $ spent, thousands of lives lost-and for what? ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/159 "2011-09-09T10:37:47Z")
I have been doing my best to ignore all the glurgy music and video montages on TV, but this morning, I was this \>\< close to flinging the TV out the window. There was a promotion for a program about the dogs of 9/11. Yes, they plan to follow up on some of the rescue dogs. I think I’ll crawl into a cave till Monday… ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2011, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523/160 "2011-09-09T11:21:28Z")
> [@flodnak](#): > > Potentially unpopular rant: > > We’ve just been through our _own_ nightmare. We do not need documentaries and retrospectives and other tragedy porn on a dozen different channels, encouraging us to relive _someone else’s_ **ten-year-old** nightmare. How much 9/11 programming are you seeing in Norway? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-we-stop-wallowing-in-9-11/595523.md?page=9)