# When do wine and spirit barrels actually get thrown away? + Other barrel questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** wine\ **Created:** [March 8, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539 "2015-03-08T17:24:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/1 "2015-03-08T17:24:05Z")
Well, what I know from my studies is that most (all?) bourbon barrels are not thrown away after the spirit is bottled but are sent to Scotland (and other places?) for use in aging Scotch whisky. Likewise, Scotland ages a lot of spirit in used sherry wine and other wine barrels. Further, those barrels can be used more than once. (Bourbon and rye and a few other types of whisky are required to be aged in charred new oak barrels in order for their respective names to be used. Corn whisky can be aged in uncharred new oak or used oak.) So I guess my questions would be these: 1. What percentage of the world’s bourbon/rye and wine barrels are never used for aging a spirit? Is it most that get used? 2. When are barrels eventually thrown out? Obviously, they can age spirit for decades. Do most barrels eventually get used for second-fill or do they get pitched? 3. Considering the world’s much larger population and the popularity of aged wines and spirits, would it be a fair guess that barrel production now is higher than at any time in history, even though barrels used to be used for other stuff too? 4. And what other stuff were barrels used for? Obviously, transporting any type of liquids. But per the restaurant name, were there “cracker barrels”? That seems like a pretty bad way to transport and crackers (though I can see maybe hardtack and stuff like that). Thanks for your answers and insights! ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/2 "2015-03-08T17:29:57Z")
I’ve heard of bourbon barrels being cut up and sold for BBQ smoking wood. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/3 "2015-03-08T17:40:01Z")
Barrels can stay in use for a long time. Here is one [300 years old](http://www.spittoon.biz/the_worlds_oldest_wine_barrel/) In fact, they do normally get reused until the wood begins to rot. Even then, if it is just the odd stave, they can be repaired. Go back 200 years and wooden barrels were a pretty ubiquitous method of storing goods, especially perishables. On an 18th century sailing ship the food and drink that wasn’t on the hoof so to speak, would be stored entirely in barrels. I am not actually sure what the ‘crackers’ in a cracker barrel were, but the meaning seems to somewhat conflate with scuttlebut. (A but(t) was a type of barrel) ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/4 "2015-03-08T18:14:38Z")
Thanks! > [@bob\_2](#): > > Barrels can stay in use for a long time. Here is one [300 years old](http://www.spittoon.biz/the_worlds_oldest_wine_barrel/) That is way cool! > [@](#): > > In fact, they do normally get reused until the wood begins to rot. Even then, if it is just the odd stave, they can be repaired. Do you mean that, say, the Jim Beam barrels that used for aging Scotch will just keep getting reused forever, or is there a certain point where they say, “Ain’t no more flavor in this puppy”? ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/5 "2015-03-08T18:34:37Z")
Generally wine barrels are only used for about 3 or 4 years. Getting 3 or 4 different years of wine in them. The 300 year old barrel is not being used to impart a wood flavor to the wine it is a storage tank with a long interesting history. Barrels for things like Scotch are generally used only once. But the scotch is in the barrel for few years. Some whiskeys will use barrels that have had once use from wine or port to give the whiskey and interesting flavor. Bourbon barrels are used only once. > [@](#): > > The Federal Standards of Identity for Distilled Spirits (27 C.F.R. 5) state that bourbon made for U.S. consumption[16] must be: > > ``` > Produced in the United States[17] > Made from a grain mixture that is at least 51% corn[17] > Aged in new, charred oak barrels[17] > Distilled to no more than 160 (U.S.) proof (80% alcohol by volume)[17] > Entered into the barrel for aging at no more than 125 proof (62.5% alcohol by volume)[17] > Bottled (like other whiskeys) at 80 proof or more (40% alcohol by volume)[18] > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/6 "2015-03-08T18:40:42Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > Bourbon barrels are used only once. They can only be used once for bourbon, but they can be used again for corn whisky, and of course they are used to age Scotch. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/7 "2015-03-08T18:54:11Z")
1. I have a whiskey barrel in my family room. It has a 36" round piece of glass on it, and a few high top bar stools nearby. Bought it from a vineyard a few years ago, when I remodeled my house. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/8 "2015-03-08T19:15:41Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > 1. And what other stuff were barrels used for? Obviously, transporting any type of liquids. But per the restaurant name, were there “cracker barrels”? That seems like a pretty bad way to transport and crackers (though I can see maybe hardtack and stuff like that). Apart from flour and the usual staples, I seem to remember the sort of people who ate oysters transported them and kept them in barrels. Oysters were eaten alive-oh — _vide_ Molly Malone —, so these barrels would have been full of the quick and the dead — until one opened the shell it was a sort of **Schrödinger’s Oyster**. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/9 "2015-03-08T19:21:51Z")
[http://www.independentstavecompany.com/](http://www.independentstavecompany.com/) I used to live in one of the towns that had a factory. IDK when the barrels are destroyed, but they did sell defective barrels to the general public, to be used for whatever they wanted (and some were pre-cut into half barrels) and they were also used as trash cans in the downtown area. I drove by the factory on the way to work, and even if it was dark (half the time, I went to work at 6am), I could tell when they got a new shipment of wood, because I could smell it from a block or two away. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/10 "2015-03-08T19:23:34Z")
Most articles I can find claim that “most” get reused and that prices for used bourbon barrels have increased as demand has increased (both by increased demand for scotch and by the use of old bourbon barrels [by microbreweries](http://ktar.com/22/1806052/Aged-beer-a-growing-trend-driving-up-barrel-prices-for-breweries)). > [@](#): > > Pool said he has seen the prices of barrels roughly double during the last few years. According to [this source](http://winefolly.com/update/life-of-a-cask-from-wine-to-whiskey/) a single used barrel (that article discussing sherry ones) are used for Scotch for about 70 years. The demand for used barrels apparently [outstrips supply](http://www.drinkingcup.net/oak-conundrum-scotch-whisky-goes-barrel-crazy/) to a huge degree. > [@](#): > > Beam-Suntory group (The Macallan, Glenrothes, Famous Grouse, Highland Park, Laphroaig…) are well known to use sherry casks across the majority of their range with Macallan using it as part of their signature style. As such, the company have invested £15 million into the manufacture and supply of sherry butts to sustain their brand demand. They literally manufacture sherry just for the seasoning of their required barrels. And as there is no longer a big enough market to sell the liquid afterwards, much of it is sold off cheap for fortifying brandies or merely discarded. ---
**Author:** ![txtumbleweed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@txtumbleweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txtumbleweed)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/11 "2015-03-08T19:27:26Z")
When I toured Buffalo Trace, they mentioned that they sold the barrels after each use. Some go to other distillers and some go to the public. According to the tour guide, if you can get one straight from the distillery, you can pour about a gallon or so of water into it and it will pull the alcohol out from the wood and make a drinkable alcoholic beverage. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/12 "2015-03-08T19:37:06Z")
> [@txtumbleweed](#): > > When I toured Buffalo Trace, they mentioned that they sold the barrels after each use. Some go to other distillers and some go to the public. As noted above, US law is peculiar in insisting that the spirit called “bourbon” must be aged in virgin barrels, so selling them after each use is a pretty practical way of recouping the expense that entails. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/13 "2015-03-08T20:10:54Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > They literally manufacture sherry just for the seasoning of their required barrels. And as there is no longer a big enough market to sell the liquid afterwards, much of it is sold off cheap for fortifying brandies or merely discarded. They should give the Sherries to the homeless missions. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/14 "2015-03-08T20:25:17Z")
Since this is mostly about spirits, let’s move it to Cafe Society. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![donkeyoatey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@donkeyoatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/donkeyoatey)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/15 "2015-03-08T20:37:40Z")
> [@txtumbleweed](#): > > When I toured Buffalo Trace, they mentioned that they sold the barrels after each use. Some go to other distillers and some go to the public. > > According to the tour guide, if you can get one straight from the distillery, you can pour about a gallon or so of water into it and it will pull the alcohol out from the wood and make a drinkable alcoholic beverage. Very common in Newfoundland years ago, known as swish. ---
**Author:** ![donkeyoatey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47c2d/32.png) [@donkeyoatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/donkeyoatey)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/16 "2015-03-08T20:46:34Z")
Not sure why that won’t load. [This](https://twignl.wordpress.com/2012/02/27/come-on-boy-and-have-yer-grog-alcohol-and-liquor-in-the-dne/) site has the newspaper clipping I tried to link to, it’s just over halfway down. ---
**Author:** ![txtumbleweed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@txtumbleweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txtumbleweed)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/17 "2015-03-08T21:06:28Z")
> [@donkeyoatey](#): > > Very common in Newfoundland years ago, known as swish. I suspect that Jim Beam Devil’s Cut is the same thing, or at least very similar. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/18 "2015-03-08T22:41:13Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Most articles I can find claim that “most” get reused and that prices for used bourbon barrels have increased as demand has increased (both by increased demand for scotch and by the use of old bourbon barrels Wow, that is an amazing fact about the sherry just being thrown out so that they can use the barrels! ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/19 "2015-03-08T22:45:54Z")
> [@txtumbleweed](#): > > I suspect that Jim Beam Devil’s Cut is the same thing, or at least very similar. Read this helpful review on the topic recently: > **[Review: Jim Beam "Devil's Cut" Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey](https://jason-scotchreviews.blogspot.com/2013/06/review-jim-beam-devils-cut-kentucky.html)** > > A site devoted to providing reviews of Scotch, bourbon, Canadian rye, Irish and Japanese whiskies. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2015, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539/20 "2015-03-09T00:08:29Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > 1. Considering the world’s much larger population and the popularity of aged wines and spirits, would it be a fair guess that barrel production now is higher than at any time in history, even though barrels used to be used for other stuff too? > > 2. And what other stuff were barrels used for? Obviously, transporting any type of liquids. But per the restaurant name, were there “cracker barrels”? That seems like a pretty bad way to transport and crackers (though I can see maybe hardtack and stuff like that). I think it’s very unlikely that current barrel production is even a fraction of a percent of what it was at its peak. Barrels were ubiquitous for centuries, not just for alcohol, but for practically anything that had to be stored for any time, or transported any distance. Any liquid, obviously, but also dry goods, like flour or gunpowder; fruit and vegetables were often carried in barrels as well, fresh, dried and pickled; also nails and other hardware. You’ve heard the expression “like shooting fish in a barrel”? Herring used to be shipped around the world, packed with salt into barrels as tightly as sardines are packed in a can. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-wine-and-spirit-barrels-actually-get-thrown-away-other-barrel-questions/714539.md?page=2)