# When do you think modernity began? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 10, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933 "2018-05-10T19:34:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/1 "2018-05-10T19:34:05Z")
This is sort of a gut-feel thing that I’m curious about. I Googled “the modern era” and, among a variety of definitions, found in Wikipedia that it started around the renaissance. But to you, Dopers, when would you say it started? For me it would definitely be during WW II, and if I was forced to be really specific, I would say that it was heralded by the B-29, with its, albeit early, computer controlled fire control system, and its pressurized cabin. As I said, gut-feel, and I’m curious to hear other opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/2 "2018-05-10T19:51:16Z")
For me, World War I is the watershed event between old-fashioned days and Modern Times. You can see the sociopolitical circumstances and technological developments of the past century in the works before that, but it’s after the war that everything burst forth and starts to form the world as we know it today. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/3 "2018-05-10T19:53:55Z")
I’d go with the first use of atomic weapons as the dawn of the modern era. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/4 "2018-05-10T20:25:35Z")
There’s different definitions for what is modern, of course, but I generally think late 18th century, if the question is asked with no further context. The post-modern era of course began at 3:32 pm on July 15, 1972, as everyone knows. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/5 "2018-05-10T20:45:09Z")
What [these really intelligent people had to say on the subject](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=838043) might interest you. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/6 "2018-05-10T21:12:03Z")
1453, with the fall of Constantinople. Modernism, as a literary period/aesthetic movement is more like 1918-1945. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/7 "2018-05-10T21:31:20Z")
Paul Johnson’s excellent book [The Birth of the Modern](https://www.amazon.com/Birth-Modern-World-Society-1815-1830/product-reviews/0060922826/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_srvw_btm?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&sortBy=recent#R210E0PVW0JCLK) makes a good case for the period from 1815-1830. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/8 "2018-05-10T21:53:07Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What [these really intelligent people had to say on the subject](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=838043) might interest you. Good lord, it seems that I’m sort of, kind of repeating a question from a year ago. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/9 "2018-05-11T00:55:47Z")
Modernity hasn’t started yet. With all our technical expertise and advancement, we are still bound to a 2,000 year old code of ethics and a 250-year old constitution, neither of which has any legitimacy whatsoever in a world in which hard phyhsical labor is no longer relevant to the distribution of wealth. Not to mention the firmly enforced caste system based on nationality at birth ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/10 "2018-05-11T01:03:35Z")
The Islamic Golden Age brought paper and the scientific method into the spotlight. The Renaissance pulled these in and added the printing press and loans between people of the same religion into being. The Enlightenment kicked off humanism, manufacture, and Capitalism. As of yet, no one has much improved on the Enlightenment, so you could term that the beginning, but I would like to give the earlier people some credit for the contributions. Paper is what really kicked everything off. It gave everyone the ability to start sharing ideas and kicking down crazy nonsense, at a distance, when the population density was a lot lower and the smart folk were few and far between, or relegated to being a farmer for their entire lives, with no opportunity for better. Once the scientifically minded could start communicating, it was all a straight path to systems that worked provably, and trying to invent new things to make it even better. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/11 "2018-05-11T01:10:29Z")
If I had to pin it on a single event, I’d say the Model T. But there were a lot of other advances at right around that same time, and it’s really about the sum totality of all of them: The radio, the airplane, etc. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/12 "2018-05-11T11:49:21Z")
It hasn’t started yet. We hope for its eventual arrival. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/13 "2018-05-11T12:06:48Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Modernity hasn’t started yet. With all our technical expertise and advancement, we are still bound to a 2,000 year old code of ethics and a 250-year old constitution, neither of which has any legitimacy whatsoever in a world in which hard phyhsical labor is no longer relevant to the distribution of wealth. Not to mention the firmly enforced caste system based on nationality at birth This. I feel like we are in a transition period between the age is agriculture and whatever comes next. Although, with respect to technology, we live in the future, and the future is (mostly) awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/14 "2018-05-11T12:38:16Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Modernity hasn’t started yet. With all our technical expertise and advancement, we are still bound to a 2,000 year old code of ethics and a 250-year old constitution, neither of which has any legitimacy whatsoever in a world in which hard phyhsical labor is no longer relevant to the distribution of wealth. Not to mention the firmly enforced caste system based on nationality at birth Do you see no substantive difference between society (or whatever term you wish to use in defining how modernity applies) between, say, 1750 and today? I see enormous differences. Perhaps you are defining the term “modern” to mean “improved, better?” I just think of it as just a word to describe a particular epoch in history, referring to the general state of development of the sociological, artistic, industrial, political, etc. Would it be preferable, in your opinion, to refer to the general trend of the late 18th to late 20th centuries as the “purple banana” period, as opposed to the modern period, just to distinguish it from what came before and after? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/15 "2018-05-11T13:07:31Z")
Definitely pre-WWII. I once read about a guy who as a kid went West on the Oregon Trail taking months. As an older dude in the 1930s he was flown back to St. Louis on a plane taking a few days. A key watershed event that many overlook is the beginning of electrification of homes and businesses. A lot of stuff really took off then, life became quite different. Furthermore, this pushed forward the electronic age since people saw they could make a ton of money coming up with the new electronic wonder gadget. Radio, for example, ensued. So 1900 +/-. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/16 "2018-05-11T13:30:07Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > Good lord, it seems that I’m sort of, kind of repeating a question from a year ago. My apologies. Seven months ago, unless you read that thread with European dating conventions. 😉 As you can see, though, people’s thoughts are all over the place. I’ll stick with my choice: 1859, when Darwin published _On the Origin Of Species._ ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/17 "2018-05-11T14:01:38Z")
I’d mark the beginning of modernity at whatever point in the 19th century industrialization became a major source of employment. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/18 "2018-05-11T14:58:42Z")
The advent of written language … oral tradition gets garbled through the generations and it wasn’t until humans could record accurately (sorta) each individual’s wisdom that progress could be built upon the foundations of the past … over 95% of human endeavor has been lost because no one thought to write it down … ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/19 "2018-05-11T15:19:59Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Definitely pre-WWII. On the other hand I would say more late mid-1990s when home internet access became common and AOL went to monthly fees. That may have changed the world and made more of what we now know as “modern” as anything else I can think of. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933/20 "2018-05-11T15:47:04Z")
I’m going to stick with [1585](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20527017&postcount=28). Failing that, [1907](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Demoiselles_d%27Avignon). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-do-you-think-modernity-began/813933.md?page=2)