# When doctors were drafted (USA), how were their ranks assigned? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 28, 2022, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014 "2022-06-28T02:31:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/1 "2022-06-28T02:31:30Z")
I failed to find anything with Google. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/2 "2022-06-28T02:48:38Z")
The so-called “Doctor Draft” started on 9 September 1950, when Truman signed Public Law 779 and ran through the end of the Viet Nam war. The young draftees were made Captains, although certain veteran specialists could be given higher ranks. [https://adhc.lib.ua.edu/vietnamwar/archive/robert-c-patton-md/](https://adhc.lib.ua.edu/vietnamwar/archive/robert-c-patton-md/) > “You know, the doctors and the pilots didn’t really mesh together very well. First of all, we sometimes outranked them. We just immediately became captains just by signing the dotted line. So they didn’t necessarily like that. But we didn’t have any conflicts. We saw them all. Flight surgeons took care of most of the pilots, anything special. But if they got sick in the middle of the night and we were staying in the hospital on call, we would take care of them.” ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/3 "2022-06-28T06:07:18Z")
Was this high rank because as highly trained/educated specialists, they needed to be of a certain rank to receive a certain level of pay that compared well to civilian income levels? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/4 "2022-06-28T06:18:40Z")
Well, since you have to have an advanced degree to be a doctor, presumably you’d want them to be officers, and you’d want to give them a rank commiserate with the level of training and experience that goes into the job, so O-3 sounds just about right. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/5 "2022-06-28T06:51:42Z")
This is reflected in M_A_S\*H. The civilian doctors were made captains; the nurses became lieutenants; and the civilian doctors with a background in the reserve forces became majors or, in Henry Blake’s case, lieutenant colonel. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/6 "2022-06-28T13:03:07Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > rank commiserate \*commensurate ;-D ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/7 "2022-06-28T13:08:15Z")
And, this is still true today, for doctors (or doctors in training) who voluntarily join the U.S. military: > [@](#): > > When you join the Military, you will be commissioned as an officer. If you join during medical school, either through the [Health Professions Scholarship Program (HPSP)](https://www.medicineandthemilitary.com/applying-and-what-to-expect/medical-school-programs/hpsp), [the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences (USU)](https://www.medicineandthemilitary.com/applying-and-what-to-expect/medical-school-programs/usu) or the Medical and Dental Student Stipend Program (MDSSP), you will enter as a second lieutenant (Army/Air Force) or as an ensign (Navy). After graduation you will advance to the rank of captain (Army/Air Force) or lieutenant (Navy). > > If you enter as a licensed physician, your rank will typically begin at captain or major (Army/Air Force) or lieutenant or lieutenant commander (Navy), but it may be higher depending on where you are in your civilian career. > **[Military Officer Training](https://www.medicineandthemilitary.com/education-and-training/military-officer-training)** > > All medical officers must attend military officer training, which involves both classroom studies and physical tasks. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/8 "2022-06-28T13:10:33Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > This is reflected in M\*A\*S\*H. The civilian doctors were made captains; the nurses became lieutenants; and the civilian doctors with a background in the reserve forces became majors or, in Henry Blake’s case, lieutenant colonel. I had understood that Winchester had no prior military experience, and that he got his rank of Major by virtue of greater medical experience than Hawkeye or BJ. And weren’t most of the nurses (aside from Houlihan, who was career Army) sergeants, not lieutenants? Of course, it’s quite possible that the show got some of the details wrong. Or at least, that a few of the writers did, because inter-episode continuity wasn’t as big of a deal back then. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/9 "2022-06-28T13:24:07Z")
In WWII a college degree was a qualification for an officer. A lieutenant if there was no other specialty. At that time less than 5% of the population had earned a college degree. That percentage began increasing rapidly after the war helped by the GI Bill providing college tuition. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/10 "2022-06-28T13:45:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And weren’t most of the nurses (aside from Houlihan, who was career Army) sergeants, not lieutenants? I think the nurses were typically lieutenants in MASH. An example is Lieutenant Dish, in the pilot episode. See MASH fan wiki has several pages dedicated to nurse characters with a lieutenant’s rank; [here](https://mash.fandom.com/wiki/Lieutenant_Baker) is an example. How historically accurate this is, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/11 "2022-06-28T13:51:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And weren’t most of the nurses (aside from Houlihan, who was career Army) sergeants, not lieutenants? I recall the RNs shown with rank were all lieutenants, save for the career officers like Margaret. What did happen was that many were shown not wearing rank at all. Prior to WW2 the military nurses’ ranks were titular ranks relative to one another, only in 1944 they became substantive ranks in the Army of the United States and only in 1947 the Nurse Corps was made a part of the Regular US Army. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/12 "2022-06-28T13:58:20Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > Was this high rank because as highly trained/educated specialists, they needed to be of a certain rank to receive a certain level of pay that compared well to civilian income levels? There’s that, but mainly, they needed the authority. A doctor needs to be able to order enlisted men around, talk back to arrogant junior officers and be able to sit in meetings with medium to high ranking officers. In other words, they’re given a rank that gives them the power and respect they need to do their jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/13 "2022-06-28T13:59:28Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > When you join the Military, you will be commissioned as an officer. If you join during medical school, either through the [Health Professions Scholarship Program (HPSP)](https://www.medicineandthemilitary.com/applying-and-what-to-expect/medical-school-programs/hpsp), [the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences (USU)](https://www.medicineandthemilitary.com/applying-and-what-to-expect/medical-school-programs/usu) or the Medical and Dental Student Stipend Program (MDSSP), you will enter as a second lieutenant (Army/Air Force) or as an ensign (Navy). After graduation you will advance to the rank of captain (Army/Air Force) or lieutenant (Navy). My father worked at NIMH after medical school and technically received a commission as a lieutenant in the navy (Thus, I was born at Bethesda Navel Hospital). He never considered it “military service.” In fact, I was unaware of his navy connection until I was around 18 and found some paperwork with “Lt. Procrustus” on it. That’s when I asked and first heard the story. This was around 1960, and I don’t know if he had to “enlist” or how it came about. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/14 "2022-06-28T15:34:11Z")
I thought I remembered an episode where some high brass was visiting the camp, and Houlihan mustered the nurses for inspection, and referred to them as “the enlisted”. Then again, it’s also possible that some of her “enlisted” were orderlies or the like, not nurses. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/15 "2022-06-28T15:44:27Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > There’s that, but mainly, they needed the authority. A doctor needs to be able to order enlisted men around, talk back to arrogant junior officers and be able to sit in meetings with medium to high ranking officers. In other words, they’re given a rank that gives them the power and respect they need to do their jobs. That’s also reflected in MASH. There’s a scene where some visiting guy tries to give Hawkeye guff: “Hey, I’m a sergeant, fella.” Hawkeye replies, “And I’m a captain, fella!” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/16 "2022-06-28T15:45:22Z")
Registered nurses or whatever status might have applied at the time would have attended nursing school and earning a degree of some sort. Those nurses likely would have been made officers to be in charge of other nurses of lower rank. Perhaps some were non-coms able to rise in the ranks that way as well. I don’t know when the current rankings were started but a non-com can advance as a Sergeant-Major all the way to the top. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/17 "2022-06-28T16:00:07Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I recall the RNs shown with rank were all lieutenants Except for Sgt. Barney Hutchinson, who becomes a plot point and a much lower ranking foil for Winchester. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/18 "2022-06-28T16:09:24Z")
Yes, though that was historically accurate as males could not be commissioned in the Nurse Corps before 1955. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/19 "2022-06-28T16:19:51Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > > [@JRDelirious](#): > > > > I recall the RNs shown with rank were all lieutenants > > Except for Sgt. Barney Hutchinson, who becomes a plot point and a much lower ranking foil for Winchester. Ninja’d by 16 minutes; I came to mention that episode. As I recall, Maj. Houlihan unofficially promotes him to Lieutenant, and gives him her old lieutenant’s bars. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014/20 "2022-06-28T16:25:02Z")
That’s also true for JAG lawyers regardless of service, I believe. They all start out as O-2, and get promoted automatically after like six months to O-3 unless they’re wholly incompetent or something. Of course, if you make a career out of it, you can get promoted quite a bit higher; a guy I went to college with is a Navy Captain (O-6) and is a JAG lawyer. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-doctors-were-drafted-usa-how-were-their-ranks-assigned/967014.md?page=2)