# When does a kiss merit 1-4 years in jail? (Spanish soccer) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 9, 2023, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844 "2023-09-09T16:48:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/321 "2023-09-13T17:53:01Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > I will say, if I was on the bus and saw her smiling and showing off the kissing photo like that I would have been very surprised to later hear she had filed charges. I get the surprise: the two events, on first blush, seem contradictory. Serious question: would you then be open to information about the unexpected ways people sometimes process traumatic events? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/322 "2023-09-13T18:00:16Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > I will say, if I was on the bus and saw her smiling and showing off the kissing photo like that I would have been very surprised to later hear she had filed charges. Except that this is not a situation where we have to decide who to believe. _We have video of the assault._ In light of which, all the more - > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > …would you then be open to information about the unexpected ways people sometimes process traumatic events? I’ll add also that I don’t think much hinges on the extent to which what he did was specifically traumatic to her, unless she were seeking monetary damages in a civil suit. She may be a psychologically robust person who was able to get on with celebrating the win without it spoiling her day. But the fact that Hermoso may be psychologically tough doesn’t excuse what he did in any way. We have video, and we can all see quite unambiguously the disgusting way he behaved, obviously without consent. That’s what he should be judged on, not whether Hermoso was later celebrating and trying to make a joke of it rather than sitting in the back of the bus crying. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/323 "2023-09-14T07:31:31Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It really was not memorable because I didn’t spend the rest of my life thinking I was sexually assaulted. You personally get to choose how you react to somebody forcibly kissing you without your consent. But you don’t get to impose your preference on how other people define sexual assault. This (very common) dismissive attitude of “eh, such situations wouldn’t be a big deal if a bunch of snowflakes would stop throwing unnecessary fits about them and getting all traumatized by them” is one of the major societal factors in enabling rape culture. Generations of sexual assault victims have been brushed off with such dismissive remarks, and it’s not helping. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/324 "2023-09-14T09:36:34Z")
Yeah, strongly reminiscent of this: [![](https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.1GbQbi8r84NWMwq85NNXuwHaIW?pid=ImgDet&rs=1) ](https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.1GbQbi8r84NWMwq85NNXuwHaIW?pid=ImgDet&rs=1) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/325 "2023-09-14T16:05:16Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > one of the major societal factors in enabling rape culture. It’s more than that - it _is_ rape culture (or a part of it). ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/326 "2023-09-14T20:58:05Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Serious question: would you then be open to information about the unexpected ways people sometimes process traumatic events? Absolutely. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2023, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/327 "2023-09-14T21:01:58Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I get the surprise: the two events, on first blush, seem contradictory. > > Serious question: would you then be open to information about the unexpected ways people sometimes process traumatic events? Off topic, and I may have told you this before, but I have always admired the way you communicate with people whose views you disagree with. The empathy you display is honestly inspiring to behold. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/328 "2023-09-16T16:28:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I remember having a desperate crush on a girl when I was fifteen. As I sat beside her at a club (the eighties were a different time), she said, “If a guy likes me, I just want him to kiss me, he doesn’t need to moon about,” or something like that. > > I didn’t, because I was painfully shy; instead, I just sat there feeling miserable and humiliated. It wasn’t until much later that I started thinking about how what she was asking for was for guys to violate consent. Uhh, no, I don’t think she making a blanket statement, she was giving _you_ permission to kiss her there and then. The way you tell it, ISTM that she could tell how you felt about her, she felt the same way, and wanted to help you overcome your shyness. Don’t feel too bad. I’ve had the same too-late realization, or been explicitly told later on, an embarrassingly large number of times. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/329 "2023-09-16T18:50:59Z")
Dammit, I looked to see if anyone made similar replies to this and didn’t find them. Sorry for the late redundancy. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2023, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/330 "2023-09-16T18:55:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Off topic, and I may have told you this before, but I have always admired the way you communicate with people whose views you disagree with. The empathy you display is honestly inspiring to behold. But that Right\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness-such a cad! ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2023, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/331 "2023-09-19T13:13:18Z")
Yeesh. This should go well. (Excerpt: link follows) _Jenni Hermoso said the decision to call up players who are boycotting Spain’s women’s team was proof that “nothing has changed” at the country’s football federation (RFEF) following [the resignation of its president over the Women’s World Cup kiss scandal._ _After most of Spain’s World Cup-winning squad were selected on Monday for upcoming games, the players said they would continue their boycott, which came after Luis Rubiales kissed Hermoso on the lips during the trophy presentation ceremony in Australia._ _Should the players refuse the call-up they could face fines of up €30,000 (£26,000) and the suspension of their federation licence for two to 15 years under Spain’s Sports Act. Victor Francos, the head of Spain’s government national sports agency, told SER radio station if the players did not show up “the government must apply the law”._ > **[‘Nothing has changed’: Jenni Hermoso hits out over Spain squad call-ups](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/sep/19/spain-women-squad-jenni-hermoso-nothing-has-changed)** > > Jenni Hermoso said the decision to call up players who are boycotting Spain’s women’s team was proof that ‘nothing has changed’ at the country’s federation ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2023, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/332 "2023-09-20T20:53:48Z")
Things are happening and it looks the Spanish players are still playing their cards well. > **[Cae Andreu Camps, la mano derecha de Rubiales](https://as.com/futbol/mas_futbol/cae-andreu-camps-la-mano-derecha-de-rubiales-n/)** > > El presidente en funciones de la RFEF, Pedro Rocha, ha cesado este miércoles al que hasta ahora ocupaba el cargo de Secretario General de la Federación. Heads are starting to roll: the General Secretary and right hand man of the former president Mr. Rubiales has been sacked, and (from the article, translated by DeepL): > Miguel García Caba, head of the RFEF’s integrity department, is the next to be dismissed. After them, the RFEF will also dispense with the services of external legal adviser Miguel González Cueto. The list of dismissals demanded by the internationals will not end here and will continue to grow with the departure of other senior management positions and employees of the RFEF. The pressure and the psychological toll on the players is enormous, and three of the 21 have refused to join the team, to which the federation has assured them that they will not suffer repercussions. It will be interesting to see the game against Sweden, whom they met in the half-finals in the WC one month ago. They are not nobodies (although Rolfö is injured), and the Spanish women have been distracted. But motivated too. Next Friday, the 22nd, 18:30 in my time zone. Yes, that is the day after tomorrow, 2,000 miles to the north from where they are now (Valencia). The federation blinked. The pressure for them was different, but even higher in the end. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/333 "2023-09-22T20:14:24Z")
Sweden 2 - Spain 3. Penalty kick in the 93rd minute! The game was relevant as the Nation’s League is the qualifier tournament for the Olympic Games; starting with a win is very auspicious. And nobody will be able to say the players were distracted by their own priorities and forgot that they play to win. And another good article by Rory Smith, from the NYT, so I [gift it](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/22/world/europe/spain-sweden-women-soccer.html?unlocked_article_code=XVsm5uuHwIx5k3IyLG-WMP0QyUVjBYx3bu7nUIGlCjqQo5rnDrJmvmqMqar3CFRJMeAkxgjDplLdztCDbMzZa4wCP9LRe8pue_tLnTmJUH2Xsyv62vQ_1zYqHm2S0IdphEubvUbhdT-PugcjIIC80PfTvKAmlZ782WKB5kQAHWmyBkTxAOvHG99JEaoKd1UU3JRTbirJzKGqQd3o8CjAiTRLyjQ_1T4a4Sy--f-WH3RL6TmKl8Ug2XdM3Np9__utKKpUKx7fwnIK9aHc1rD7SidhdrlRA-73tB9NAOCvhzoIE3X7hID7l16m3pjCxaWiZLqw8WZXr8Fz6De4cpOMGzb2XbcGd4HJ6Q&smid=url-share). ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2023, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/334 "2023-09-23T04:04:00Z")
> [@Washington Post](#): > > Viewing all four of Eisenstaedt’s exposures in sequence, it becomes especially clear that Zimmer was defensively pulling down her skirt, not swooning in his embrace. Sorry, I know the thread has moved past this, but I have tried to find this sequence of four exposures and I have had no luck. The photo I am familiar with is not the one in the Smithsonian link above, but the one where her arm is hanging down, although still with a clenched fist. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the one with her fist in his face before. I’d really like to see all four. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2023, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/335 "2023-10-05T03:53:35Z")
FIFA seems to have been concerned enough about this to award Spain and Portugal the bulk of the 2030 World Cup. Cynics might suggest holding the first three games in South America, to celebrate the centennial of the first tournament in Uruguay, is a ploy to increase the chances of another winter World Cup in 2034 by saying South America and Europe had their turn. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2023, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/336 "2023-10-30T13:28:05Z")
> **[FIFA bans Luis Rubiales from ‘all football-related activities’ for three...](https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/30/sport/fifa-bans-luis-rubiales-three-years-hermoso-spain-spt-intl/index.html)** > > FIFA, soccer’s world governing body, has banned Luis Rubiales – the former president of the Spanish Football Association (RFEF) – from all football-related activities for three years over his unwanted kiss on Spain’s Women’s World Cup-winning star... ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/337 "2024-01-01T18:56:41Z")
Update: There is this tradition in Spain where they broadcast life the clock in the Puerta del Sol in Madrid on the night of the 31st of december: when the bell chimes twelve times at midnight the tradition is to eat twelve grapes. If you swallow all the grapes and survive it is suposed to bring good luck. Each year a couple of people choke to death, I guess that is bad luck. Those were the minutes with the biggest audience when I was young, the ads before and after “las campanadas” (the chimes) were the most expensive of the year, perhaps similar to the Big Bowl in the USA. I guess they still are. Jenny Hermoso was [invited to co-present this even from the balcony](https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/seleccion/femenino/rubiales-pronuncia-presencia-jenni-hermoso-96445195) (link in Spanish) in front of the famous clock. She did well and declared to have felt honoured. Mr. Rubiales was asked what he thought of that, and was not pleased. He was hardly able to bite his tongue, but soon stopped complaining: “Televisión Española is a public entity and it works with the taxes of all Spaniards. All this is being settled right now in the National Court and… I prefer not to give my opinion about a public entity taking a position, I prefer to stay out of it”. Tomorrow, January 2nd, Ms Hermoso will testify under oath in front of the mentioned National Court that is investigating Mr. Rubiales behaviour. She is expected to confirm her previous statements, which have been debated in this thread already. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/338 "2024-01-01T19:07:47Z")
Do you have to swallow the grapes whole, or is chewing permitted? ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/339 "2024-01-01T19:11:01Z")
Chewing is permitted, but you have to finish during the twelve seconds. Today it is easier than in my childhood: they have seedless grapes! My mom used to peel and de-seed hers. We big boys of course scoffed at that and called it cheating. Wow, there is even a page in English about that! > **[Twelve Grapes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Grapes)** > > The Twelve Grapes (Sp. las doce uvas de la suerte, "the twelve grapes of luck") is a Spanish and Portuguese tradition that consists of eating a grape with each of the twelve clock bell strikes at midnight of 31 December to welcome the New Year. Each grape and clock bell strike represents each of the coming twelve months. > This tradition dates back from at least 1895 but was consolidated among the population in 1909. In December of that year, some Alicantese vine growers spread this custom to be... ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2024, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844/340 "2024-01-01T19:22:35Z")
Thanks. Also easier should you choose to attempt it in London; each of Big Ben’s ‘bongs’ takes a few seconds to deliver. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-kiss-merit-1-4-years-in-jail-spanish-soccer/989844.md?page=18)