# When does a Muslim woman have to wear a hijab - if she wears a hijab **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 16, 2005, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001 "2005-01-16T06:50:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/1 "2005-01-16T06:50:08Z")
Does a hijab just have to worn when in public? Does it have to worn in her home? If she is alone? What are rules on wearing a hijab? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/2 "2005-01-16T08:31:35Z")
Strictly speaking a hijab is an Arab thing, not exactly an Islam thing. Modesty in dress is what is religiously required. All the rest is culture. All that being said, women here wear ‘Regular Clothing’ at home. ---
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/3 "2005-01-16T08:44:51Z")
What would regular clothing be in Saudi Arabia? Would they different clothing if a guest was at the house? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/4 "2005-01-16T13:34:28Z")
That is an easy question, but I have no easy answer. When a male comes to my house my (Islamic, not Arab) GF runs away to put on her hijab. She usually wear blue jean shorts around the house or a skirt and blouse. On the other hand, when we go to an (Islamic, Arab) friend’s house, I have no idea what the wife is wearing as I never have met her. The girls run off to another room and do things I can only imagine (and brother, I can imagine a lot!). Come to think of it, I have never said a word to a Saudi woman. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/5 "2005-01-16T14:10:12Z")
I also want to point out that in some Arab cultures it’s not a “have to.” Some women have a choice, and they choose to wear the hijab. But if they choose to, I assume they follow some convention you are referring to. Don’t know what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/6 "2005-01-16T14:37:51Z")
On the other hand, most Saudi women want to dress the way they do. When they go to London (or wherever) they dress differently, but only because they are overseas. It is wrong to think that local women are ‘forced’ to dress a certain way. On the (yet another) hand, I will admit that a Saudi woman who dressed in a way most Americans would find unremarkable would ‘get in trouble’ here. Still, different places and different people have different cultures. ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/7 "2005-01-16T18:47:31Z")
**Disclaimer** – I am a Muslim woman who does not wear a hijab, but I do have family that do. These are my observations from being around them. In the company of other women _only_, a woman does not have to wear a hijab. This point was made rather obvious to me at my cousin’s wedding, where the male and female prayer halls in the mosque are in seperate rooms, with seperate entrances. Outside the mosque, those women who wear hijabs, wore their hijabs, however, once into the women’s foyer of the mosque, the hijabs came off. If a woman is in mixed company, then she wears a hijab, apart from when with immediate family, (I think). **If a woman is going out, so that she will be seen by others (male and/or female), she wears a hijab.** However, as **Paul in Saudi** notes, the wearing of the hijab is a cultural rather than a religous thing. The dress requirements placed on a Muslim woman, are the same as those placed on a Muslim man, which are to dress modestly, and to cover one’s hair when in prayer. ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/8 "2005-01-16T21:46:58Z")
The majority of Arab women don’t wear hijab; that’s pretty much a Saudi pennisular thing. Even then outside of Saudi itself in the other Gulf states you’re more likely to see a headscarf with the abaya (that long black garment conservative Arab women wear in public) but not necessarily the veil. Depends upon where you are. The hijab is rather rare in North Africa, although in rural areas you will see a different type of headscarf which reveals some hair (a big _haram_ for a lot of Gulf women). Some very conservative families in the Gulf have the woman in a burqa-like covering, even down to black fingertipless gloves so you don’t get turned on by Fatima’s palms. In Tunisia it’s pretty common to see mom wearing a loose headscarf (no tie; held in teeth!) and abaya and daughter in tight jeans, hair done, lipstick, heels, spaghetti straps. 14th century to 20th in one generation. You won’t really see skirts though. Looks as if most Lebanese women are usually dressed for a night out clubbing (as are most Gulf ladies under the abaya… which is itself becoming form fitting in some areas). My female students in Qatar wore pretty wild eye make-up, had their nails and toenails done and wore some pretty funky shoes… platforms and heels. Apparently they’re decked out in the latest fashions under the abaya. The general rule is that if non-immediate-relative males around (in the most conservative families) then put on the conservative dress; at home anything goes, but as a visitor (unless a visitor in a more liberal Arab society) you won’t see it. Traditional Arab homes have seperate _majlis_, or living room of sorts, unconnected directly to the rest of the house, for each gender. Apparently the women’s wedding reception is quite a sight, in the Gulf in a rental hall and all the ladies dressed to impress (each other). The men’s receptions are usually outdoors, on carpets in the desert (i.e. on the egde of town). ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/9 "2005-01-16T23:43:53Z")
> [@Crandolph](#): > > The majority of Arab women don’t wear hijab; that’s pretty much a Saudi pennisular thing. Even then outside of Saudi itself in the other Gulf states you’re more likely to see a headscarf with the abaya (that long black garment conservative Arab women wear in public) but not necessarily the veil. This confuses me–“hijab” as it is used around here means just the headscarf, not necessarily a veil. However, hijab to me implies a headscarf that covers all the hair, as opposed to those which may let the hairline show. Does “hijab” mean (or also mean) a veiled headcovering? ---
**Author:** ![hathaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@hathaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hathaway)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/10 "2005-01-17T04:57:16Z")
I think he’s using hijab to mean a veil over the face, possibly? As far as I understand it, hijab actually means the requirement of modest dress, but that it’s come to also mean the scarf itself. I’ve heard the Muslim women I know say hijab or just scarf to refer to the scarves they wear. The scarves can be pre-made (meaning, it’s a cloth headband and a cloth tube you slip over your head), or cuts of fabric in triangle, square, or rectangular shape. You wrap and pin it yourself, so you could choose to pin it loosely so that hair shows, or tightly around your face to make sure not even a bit of the underside of your chin shows. Kind of fascinating, really. And “niqaab” around here (Canada) means the face veil (so that you see only the eyes, or nothing at all.) The kind I’ve seen is a set of squares sewn together with a long tie, and you tie it to your forehead along with your scarf, and you can flip down each square of fabric so that nobody can see even your eyes, or raise them so that all anyone can see is your eyes. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/11 "2005-01-17T05:07:01Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > my (Islamic, not Arab) GF I’m curious and for some reason embarassed. Do you live together? Is there a social stigma with that? Does she keep her shorts with the veil or change clothes as well? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/12 "2005-01-17T05:57:59Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > On the other hand, most Saudi women want to dress the way they do. When they go to London (or wherever) they dress differently, but only because they are overseas. \*\*It is wrong to think that local women are ‘forced’ to dress a certain way. \*\* > > On the (yet another) hand, I will admit that a Saudi woman who dressed in a way most Americans would find unremarkable would ‘get in trouble’ here. Still, different places and different people have different cultures. (emphasis added) Are you saying, Paul, that there is no legal penalty for women who dress how they please in Saudi Arabia? Because that’s not what Amnesty International says. From: [http://www.amnesty.ca/SaudiArabia/5.php](http://www.amnesty.ca/SaudiArabia/5.php) > [@](#): > > Women who breach the strict dress code for women also face arrest. Margaret Madill, a Canadian nurse working in Saudi Arabia in 1993, took a taxi home with a female friend after a shopping trip in Riyadh. Suddenly a mutawa’ jumped into the taxi and forced the driver to go to the headquarters of al-Mutawa’een. When they arrived, the women were locked in the taxi in the extreme heat for up to six hours. They screamed for help and were then beaten. They were accused of indecent dress and public intoxication. They were then transferred to al-Malaz prison and held for two days, before being released without charge. Maybe that’s out of context, maybe not, but that sure sounds to me like they are forced to dress a certain way. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/13 "2005-01-17T06:08:11Z")
The GF and I used to live together, but we have split up. A woman who dresses in a conservative Western way will generally not get in trouble. A Mexican lady I know get hassled more as she ‘looks Saudi.’ A woman who went to the mall wearing short-shorts would be arrested, I guess. So no, women in Saudi cannot ‘dress as they please,’ but then the same is true where you live, I guess. All societies I suppose have their limits. What I was trying (and failing) to say is that most local women dress the way they dress here because that is the way women are ‘supposed’ to dress here. I do not think that women are beaten with sticks as each morning they insist upon wearing their ‘Sexy Spice’ costume. Women are taught to dress here by their mothers. Same as elsewhere except in the details. (Oddly we never hear about the dress code in effect for Saudi men, because there is one.) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/14 "2005-01-17T06:24:31Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > So no, women in Saudi cannot ‘dress as they please,’ but then the same is true where you live, I guess. I don’t think you can walk around nekkid in Arkansas, but I don’t know if anyone ever tried it. Una’s post reads pretty badly for your side, Dude. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/15 "2005-01-17T06:27:13Z")
> [@Paul in Saudi](#): > > A woman who went to the mall wearing short-shorts would be arrested, I guess. And whose short-shorts are they? ---
**Author:** ![Angua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8baadc/32.png) [@Angua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angua)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/16 "2005-01-17T09:05:27Z")
Around these parts (UK), a hijab is a headscarf which covers the hairline, so the face can be seen, but not the hair. A niqab is a veil which covers the face, and a burkha is akin to a long dark coat/cloak type thing that covers the body completely. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/17 "2005-01-17T09:43:15Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Una’s post reads pretty badly for your side, Dude. I have no side. Dude. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/18 "2005-01-17T15:21:48Z")
Do they make ones to match bikinis? Just wondering…are the beaches in Saudi Arabia full of hijab-wearing women? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/19 "2005-01-17T15:28:30Z")
As far as “has to” goes in Islam, the issue is not as cut-and-dried as some people make out. Has anyone heard of Sa‘id al-‘Ashmawi, the Egyptian expert on Islamic law? > **[The Many Layers of the Veil](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-jan-12-fg-veil12-story.html)** > > As debate over the Muslim hijab, or head scarf, grows with its visibility, wearers defend it as a civil right and emblem of identity. The whole article is germane to the OP, but allow me to quote the part about al-‘Ashmawi’s legal opinion. > [@](#): > > In 1994, an Egyptian judge named Said Ashmawi wrote a book that gathered all the religious arguments for the hijab, dissected them and concluded that Islam does not oblige women to cover their hair. His life hasn’t been the same since. > > Ashmawi studied at Harvard and rose to become a chief justice in Egypt. But now he is a pariah among Egypt’s Islamists, confined to his home by death threats. A guard is posted in the lobby of his building, and Ashmawi refuses to give his apartment number over the phone. > > He is afraid to wander into the city, and not without reason — novelist Naguib Mahfouz, a Nobel laureate and the dean of Egyptian literary circles, was stabbed and seriously wounded by Islamic militants on a Cairo street for espousing similar views. > > Isolated and defiant, Ashmawi passes his days in a dim sitting room crammed to fantastic overflow with golden candelabras, glass roses and ceramic apples. > > “I don’t want to ban hijab, but I’d like to explain to the people,” Ashmawi says, fluttering plump hands during a recent meeting in his apartment. Islamists “are using their power to impose, and they are distorting our faith. I put legal arguments in the mouths of the people who read my books.” > > To like-minded people, the near-ubiquity of the hijab is evidence of a powerful patriarchal system that has imposed tribal traditions on women without religious justification. Ashmawi blames Islamist groups such as Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood for turning the head scarf into a “political badge.” > > The hijab is important to the Brotherhood, Ashmawi argues, because it keeps up appearances in the streets. “Islamists have to prove themselves, either by beard or by veil,” he says. "They say hijab is a duty. What duty? They want if somebody enters Egypt they will say, ‘Oh, it’s an Islamic country.’ " > > Asked about girls who choose the hijab for reasons of their own — religious devotion, asserting their Islamic identity, keeping up with a fashion trend — Ashmawi snorts: “What choice?” > > “They are ordered, that’s all. The father, the brother, he teaches her. They are forcing them,” he says. “They are not free, not at all.” My point is that it remains a controversial topic, and people should be very cautious about categorical statments saying “Islam requires such and such” without being aware of the different currents of thought in the ongoing debate. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001/20 "2005-01-17T15:33:45Z")
Yep. Here in Saudi Arabia, the ladies go to the beach an sit and cook and make coffee. The men and boys (and little girls) play in the water. I went to the beach one day and was treated to a nice cabin cruiser close inshore. Very California, with a bunch of guys who shouldn’t be wearing speedos doing so. In the back were a half dozen ladies draped from head to toe, sitting in the cockpit facing one another, all wearing orange life vests. Of course this varies. In Malaysia women on the beach are probably dressed to help the men bring in the day’s catch. Here in Saudi Arabia, the people are (generally) rich enough to dress in accordance with the strictest interpretation of the rules. As has been said before, the dress code and its interpretation varies. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-a-muslim-woman-have-to-wear-a-hijab-if-she-wears-a-hijab/285001.md?page=2)