Indeed it is. However, from my perspective as a Muslim woman, Islam does oblige you to cover your hair when in prayer, the same way that Islam obliges a man to cover his hair whilst in prayer.
The whole hijab issue is far more nebulous, but my cousins, and my aunt made a conscious choice. My uncle had no say in the matter, and had he forced them to don the headscarf, words would have been had.
[QUOTE=Angua<SNIP>
However, as Paul in Saudi notes, the wearing of the hijab is a cultural rather than a religous thing. The dress requirements placed on a Muslim woman, are the same as those placed on a Muslim man, which are to dress modestly, and to cover one’s hair when in prayer.[/QUOTE]
I keep hearing that bit about a woman wearing a black cloth over her head and face being cultural and not religious. In Saudi though, I’ve noticed that it is the **religious ** police (Mutawwa) that enforce the wearing of these. They also object to women wearing “clicky” shoes, makeup, nail polish, and showing their ankles.
The objections of the mutawwa are NOT cultural, they consist of “You’re going to hell for that” and similar phrases.
Regards
Testy
Some of the disconnect between the Amnesty Intl. stuff and Paul in Saudi is probably due to his location. Jeddah is known for being extremely liberal as is the Khobar/Dammam area on the other coast. Riyadh OTOH has been deliberately turned into an Islamic hell.
Regards
Jack
I have never seen a woman of any ethnic group harassed for not having a face veil. Darn few Saudi women wear them. Even fewer wear black gloves. It is an oddity to see it.
(By the way, don’t black gloves have a certain kinky attraction which sort of defeats the purpose of wearing them? But then I have been here much too long.)
What would you like them to say? “Please don’t wear that, you’re offending our outdated cultural sensitivities and undermining our methods to subjugate women?” How many other times have you heard “religious” arguments corrupted to support a particular viewpoint?, And not just from Islam.
The headscarf, on the other hand, is supposed to be an expression of faith, and a free choice. Not wearing a headscarf doesn’t make you any less or any more of a Muslim, it is merely an outward expression of your faith. None of the people I know who wear headscarves were coerced into it, it was their own choice. And likewise, they wear “clicky heels”, scarlet nails, dye their hair, wear makeup, jeans, and short tops. They just also choose to wear the headscarf.
In Mughal India there are many stories of Hindu women taking up the wearing of the veil because that’s what their Persian rulers did, it was part of the culture of the ruling class, and so people wanted to fit in.
Well no, it would be nice but I don’t expect to hear the religious folk say anything like an apology in this lifetime. As far as how many times I’ve heard religious arguments warped, I think most religions (Islam not excepted) have such fuzzy and contradictory teachings that someone can justify any act at all. Subjugation of women is far from the worst things religious people do.
Regards
testy
A really fascinating book about the Muslim culture in Afghanistan before, during and after the taliban is The Bookseller of Kabul.
It talks about a man who owned a bookshop during and after the taliban came into power but it talks a lot about family life. It was written by a reporter who lived in this man’s home for quite a long time.
I’ve never been to Saudi Arabia, but I was visiting a resort in Egypt on the Red Sea (Hurghada) a few years ago. At one hotel, I saw a woman “sunbathing” in black clothing head to toe fully veiled, and 10 feet from her was a presumably Western woman with only a bikini bottom. Egypt is a more liberal country than most other Muslim countries, and the resorts are even more tolerant since they know which side their bread is buttered on. In Egypt, generally if a woman is obviously Western and wearing Western tourist clothing (shorts, sleeveless shirt) on the street, it won’t draw any attention but a local woman wearing the same thing could possibly be verbally harassed, though not assaulted or arrested.
I’ve never been to Saudi Arabia, but I was visiting a resort in Egypt on the Red Sea (Hurghada) a few years ago. At one hotel, I saw a woman “sunbathing” in black clothing head to toe fully veiled, and 10 feet from her was a presumably Western woman with only a bikini bottom. Egypt is a more liberal country than most other Muslim countries, and the resorts are even more tolerant since they know which side their bread is buttered on. In Egypt, generally if a woman is obviously Western and wearing Western tourist clothing (shorts, sleeveless shirt) on the street, it won’t draw any attention but a local woman wearing the same thing could possibly be verbally harassed, though not assaulted or arrested.
In the city, at one sports club, on certain days the pool was open only to women. I never went to the pool so I’m not sure what women did on days that it was open to anyone.
There are something like 50 different Arabic dialects and sometimes the names of things like clothing items get switched up depending on dialect (I know for example that dishdash gets switched from the male to female garment in Sudanese Arabic). As my Qatari students described it, hijab to them meant the whole head/facial covering. I’m sure they had a seperate word meaning “just the headscarf” but I couldn’t tell you what that was.
Paul - I’d say 1 in 20 Qatari women did the black glove thing, and I have the impression they’re more liberal than the Saudis… what would you say the ratio is in Saudi?
Also, the long black Arab garment is an abaya, not a burqa, which is that big Afghani tent thing with the restrictive headpiece. I doubt you see burqas in the UK.
You’d be surprised.
Please excuse my last response. That was extremely snarky not to mention out of place in this forum. I fear religious people for the things they can justify in the name of religion but that is no reason to take it out on you.
Anyway, please excuse my uncouth response and Eid Mubarraq to you.
Regards
testy
You see a little of everything in the countries where Muslims from diverse countries and traditions have settled. I’ve seen the full veils here, too.
Really? Are there that many Afghani immigrants? All of the Afghanis I’ve seen here (less than a dozen) have adopted pretty much western dress.
Don’t worry about it. I shudder myself at the atrocities that some people justify in the name of religion. Thank you for the apology, and the Eid wishes.
Actually, all the Afghani immigrants I know have adopted western dress. Its the Pakistani women that are the ones wearing burkhas.
I was wondering – can a Muslim woman do anything to customize her hijab, burkha, etc.? Does it have to be black or can it be a dark shade of purple, brown or navy blue? Can the fabric be a light silk that isn’t as heavy as the kind I see on the news? Could they embroider the hijab? Just curious.
I’ve seen headscarves in all sorts of colours – they don’t have to be dark, in fact a lot of women will wear lighter coloured ones. The only requirement is that they are opaque – the hair should not be seen through the scarf. I’ve seen lots of beautiful embroidered scarves for special occasions as well as designer scarves with logos emblazoned on them!
Quick answer: Whenever she is in presence of post-pubescent males that are not her husband or children. That’s the strictest it gets. Some might include their brothers or other close family members.
As a muslim male, I don’t support hijabs at all.
Don’t forget the [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1294417.stm]police uniform
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hijabs (and turbans).