When Does An Old Car Become A "Classic" Car?

Factual Questions
21

As many folks have pointed out, it depends… Not only on your personal definition of “classic”, but the state government that creates rules for tagging certain cars, and the buying public, which drives the market for classic cars.

Your car, for instance, has value to you, and to maybe other Saturn owners, but putting it for sale might give you a real idea of what the car might be worth to the public at large.

In Pennsylvania, it used to be that if your car was 10 years old or more, you could get “CLASSIC” plates for the car, which were great for a number of reasons. This was bsck in the 70’s and early 80’s, when cars lasting 10 years was somewhat of a novelty. Now, 10 yer cars are all over the road. I own one, and don’t consider it a classic by any definition.

In PA, the ANTIQUE plate can be put on your vehicle provided it is 25 years old, and in good shape (you used to have to send photos in of your car, but I’m not sure that’s still the rule). Pa used to hae a great purple plate with white numbers for the antique plate, but someone in Harrisburg decided to change it for who knows why to something similar to Connecticuts. It is an awful plate, with an REO Speedwagon or something on it. It looks so bad, many folks opt to leave regular plates on their car instead of getting the antique plate, which brings significant money savings advantages (no annual inspections, lower insurance rates, etc.). But you can’t put that stupid plate. A 1965 corvette and think it makes the car.

“Classic” also has to meet a certain leel of style and panache. A Chrysler K car, for example, saved the company, but they aren’t being sought out by too many people, and no one is restoring them.

So, I would say this… For classic cars, anything over 25 years old that is being collected actively by the car community, whereas an antique just needs to be 25 years old. But these are my definitions. I think a corvette of 25 years ago is a classic automobile, but a Buick skylark? Not so much? What about a Chrysler LeBaron? No.

So the car has to be sporty, have a market of interested buyers and restoration hobbiests, and be on the rare/expensive side.

If thst Edsel someone mentioned upthread is salvagable, take a look at it and get a price. It could be worth buying it for parts alone, but there are many Edsel clubs across the country, and people will pay good money for a nice looking Edsel.

If you look at card produced over the last 10 years, I think only three will become real collectors items… The mustangs, camaros, and the challengers. All cars retro’ed from the 60’s muscle car era.

22

Yes, and those cars are in showroom condition. Care to guess what a rusting old heap, with an engine that hasn’t run in 30 years? With mice-eaten upholstery? The restoration of this car would run $20,000 easily-care to try it?

23

Yep, the bane of classic car buyers is the guy with a rusted heap good only for parts insisting it’s valuable because he saw the exact same car sell for $XX,XXX or more on the tv. There are cars that are worth a lot in such shape - the rusted shell of a Porsche 356 Speedster comes to mind - but not many.

And I think we’re past the days when a common car (something sold in the 10s of thousands like a Saturn) becomes a collectible, the way the Ford Mustang did.

24

If there aren’t already websites and forums about a given car, chances are it isn’t going to become a collectable classic. OTOH, there are some cars that seem ordinary, but have so many enthusiastic fans that they will probably always be desirable to someone.

25

I’d say there in NO car out there that doesn’t have a web forum and/or fan club, no matter how common and mundane. Base model Kias and Hyundais, the Toyota Yaris, the Ford Focus - the internet means everything has a following. While that means there will always be a demand for nice examples, a small following means demand will never be enough for the car to appreciate.

I’d say the collectible bar is restoration. There are people that will pay good money for an 80s Honda CR-X, and there are long-term owners that will restore their own out of sentiment, but I’ve never seen anyone buy a crappy one and pay to fix it up, even though decent ones are hard to come by.

26

If you are a collector like Jay Leno, spending $100,000 to restore an old car is nothing. But if you are an average guy, restoring an old Edsel is insane. You buy this car, then spend over $20,000..and now you have a car that is worth (maybe) $10,000. Can you drive it? Yes..if you don’t mind 9 MPG, crappy brakes, no airbags, no modern conveniences, and extremely unsafe to boot. And the pool of potential Edsel lovers is small..and getting smaller. In 1958, they couldn’t give em away.:smack:

27

I disagree. As I mentioned before, I believe three potential cars came out of the decade. The mustang, camero, and challenger all have great potential to be collectors items in ten to twenty years.

Time will tell, though.

The other thing that I think may hurt any car made now is that your basic weekend mechanic can no longer work on an engine. I don’t know if it matters or not, but it seems to me that one of the things about a classic or antique car that is important is the ability for a person to maintain it. I know not everyone can maintain a car, but a weekend mechanic can do a lot to a 66 mustang that they could never do to an '06 mustang.

Interesting exercise.. Think back to 1987-88. Is there any car you would consider a classic? Maybe a Delorean, depending on when it was built, but that’s it for me. I can’t think of anything else made 25 years ago that is now a classic in my mind.

28

Yes, Japanese cars are next to worthless (as collectibles). The reasons are many, but the fact is , they were built with very lightweight components, and the body metal was thin. Throw in 30 years of rust, and you really have something next to impossible to restore. There are a few valuable Japanese cars (Jay Leno has a Mada Cosmo-a very rare car that is worth serious money). These are exceptions.

29

Umm, you missed my point. We’re PAST the days of those cars, meaning I don’t see cars from the 80s or 90s that sold in those volumes becoming collectible. The most popular cars in that period would be Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys, which ain’t happening.

There are some cars from that 80s that are appreciating classics, mostly yuppie icons. The Porsche 911SC (1978-1983) and Carrera 3.2 (1984-1989) are steadily climbing, dragged up by the rising prices of the pre-1973 911s and the poor reputation of the post-1998 cars; the 930 (911 turbo) can run $50k, and the rare Speedsters are almost $100k. The BMW M3 made from 1988-1991 is on the cusp of what I was talking about, restoration-wise. A top quality E30 M3 is $30k and up and will soon be expensive enough to warrant paying in the teens for a bad one and fixing it up. A guy in NJ is already infamous for half-assed restos already. The more common E30s are also climbing a bit. Ron Tonkin GT sold a E30 cab for $11k on eBay last week - even the nicest ones were $7k or so only a couple of years ago. The Mercedes-Benz 190E with 16-valve engines are rising as well, though as then they aren’t as popular; nice ones are going up, but I don’t see anyone paying to restore one.

On the domestic front, some 80s coupes are finding favor - Cutlass Supremes, Buick Rivieras, Thunderbirds - as well as the Caprice Classic. A cousin of mine recently finished a fairly pricey resto of a Cutlass. (I was there in the 80s - he had NO interest in them at the time). The Buick Grand National is seeing a rise in interest, too.

Deloreans are sort of stuck - most people that bought them thought they’d be collectible, and so the bulk are in decent shape. They’ve hovered in the low 20s for years, and will continue to, imo.

Me, I’m old school - I’m hoping to land an E-type in the next month or so, series 1.5 or 2, coupe, in a color other than bright red, Old English white, or Primrose yellow (black over red would be perfect!). I’ve owned a 60s Rolls-Royce previously so I’ve already got British tools and I’ve worked with SU carbs and Lucas electrics before.

30

That depends on how you qualify “low production run”. It’s true that very few mass-market vehicles will ever become classics, but there are lots of relatively common newer vehicles that are already classics. The first-generation BMW M3, for example. There were more than 15,000 built. Same with the Buick Grand National (25,000+), though I can’t figure out for the life of me why anyone would want one.

31

That’s a redneck dream car from the 1980s. The way a lot of people lust for a 911 or Ferrari some day, a lot of guys were drooling over the GNX back in KY, almost to Corvette-lust levels (back home, no one gave a damn about fancy furrin cars). I’m not surprised those guys are scooping them up now that they’ve got the bucks, though it was never my cup of tea either.

32

Rarely is there a thread that I am actually qualified to comment on, but hopefully my usrname indicates that I have at least some knowledge.

First, the definitions get really murky. States recognize antiquity at some arbitrary age, but that really has no relation to the collectibility or value of the vehicle. Rarely, a car can appreciate shortly after sale. More commonly the model has to wander the desert, going through a period of either disdain or being forgotten. People forget the high-buck 60s muscle cars were practically given away as jalopies by the early 80s.

Next, rarity has little to do with value, at least when talking about how rare the vehicle was when new. In fact, there is often an inverse relationship here. Many people get to a point in life where they are a little older, have a little money, and most commonly they want either that car they had as a kid and remember fondly, or that car they couldn’t afford back in the day. Witness here the value of the old Mustangs and mid-50s chevies. Now, especially in the case of the Mustang, the sheer volume produced keeps the prices reasonable today. Nonetheless, they are valued and generally appreciating.

To those who think nothing of type X will ever appreciate (be it Japanese, smog era, etc)- I assure you some will. If you can guess which ones, hoard them cheap and wait. Sadly, there is no way to know, but I suspect some of the hot Hondas from the 80s and 90s will see their day when the right generation (30s and 40s today?) empties their nests. ’ I predict that the SUVs of the last 20 years will also appreciate some day (especially the early Explorer, being an archetype). This will happen, I think, a generation after they have passed from commonality. The reason is that the kids of today will remember them as some of us do the station wagons of our youth, and by the time they are late middle age I suspect there won’t be anything like them on the road (you know, when we all drive 250lb personal motility bubbles that run on unicorn farts)

Cars which are considered archetypical (see Mustang, Corvette, Thunderbird) often go on to be quite valuable.

Finally, the terms Classic, Antique, etc. get really murky. CCCA maintains a specific list of vehicles which were ““Fine” or “Distinctive” automobile, American or foreign built, produced between 1925* and 1948. Generally, a Classic was high-priced when new and was built in limited quantities. Other factors, including engine displacement, custom coachwork and luxury accessories, such as power brakes, power clutch, and “one-shot” or automatic lubrication systems, help determine whether a car is considered to be a Classic.”

Now, many of the CCCA members are a bit pompous, and consider anything not a classic to be “just an old used car.” Most of the rest of us think they can stuff that… well you get it. But they can’t “own” the definition of Classic, even if they think they do. But, I thought this worth mentioning since you can use that term with the wrong person and next thing you know you’re listening to a rather long explanation which basically boils down to “you’re a heathen who doesn’t know a proper automobile, and probably eat your soup with the salad fork”

33

Yeah, only the CCCA thinks their definition has any weight, but it comes up quite often on car forums discussing classics. I’m for classic and antique being used interchangeably and remaining nebulous, but I think collectible should be used when a car sells for higher than MSRP with no adjusting for inflation. That adds a lot of old cars to the mix (most everything up until the 1980s, probably) and accounts for newer cars like the Ferrari Enzo or the Ford GT. That seems the most democratic way, as it sets aside provenance, significance, and just goes by “a few people still seem to like them quite a bit.”

34

The rules for collector car plates vary from state to state and the identity of a car being a classic also varies. For instance, a BMW 2002 is a classic, but a Chrysler K car is not. Neither is an AMC Gremlin. All these meet the age criteria; however, only the 2002 had style, grace, and dependability.

Check with your local Saturn club members to see if your car is weathering the test of time.

35

Yeah, no. The Reliant is as valid a classic as a 2002, regardless of your opinion. As Oldolds said, the CCCA wouldn’t define a BMW 2002 as a classic and the ‘02’ cars are seminal to the company’s history. Everyone trying to promote their own definitions is why it’s such a morass state-to-state.

36

The trouble with this is that if a car is popular when new, the car makers tend to make huge numbers of them, which diminishes both their rarity and their appeal. I think a big part of why the first generation of muscle cars are so collectable now is that they actually weren’t all that popular (in terms of sales numbers) when they were new and smog regulations essentially killed them before the car makers were really able to capitalize on the trend.

Incidentally, the Edsel is pretty good illustration of this. They obviously sold poorly, limiting the supply of them today, but the notoriety of the flop has kept interest in them alive to a much greater degree than their much more competent competitors. An Edsel in decent shape will actually fetch quite a bit more these days than most family sedans from that era.

This is just so laughably wrong. Japanese cars are practically the ONLY things that are beginning to be collectable from the 80’s and 90’s. While the muscle cars of the classic Detroit era devolved into underpowered plasticy land yachts, the Japanese started making great performance oriented cars. Try pricing an 80’s Supra or Nissan Z car versus a similar vintage Mustang or Camaro-- the latter are basically in “cheap transportation” price ranges whereas a decent example of the Japanese cars are close to what they sold for new. Even just sportier subvariants of regular bread-n-butter cars like the Civic or Corolla from the 80’s and early 90’s have active enthusiast bases and are starting to appreciate in price.

37

The prime rule is that whatever car you wanted at 15, that’s a good candidate to be worth some money when you’re 55.

But the way to make money in classic cars is by making the restoration parts. Don’t try to decide whether the Corvette, Camaro or Caprice (and which year) is the hot ticket, specialize in the parts that make them common. GM shared a lot of components across their car lines, as did all of the other manufacturers. It may be something as simple as the proper color spray paint for the alternator or the right coolant overflow tank.

I don’t have the capital, but if I did, I’d start now on perfecting interior components for Hondas. Carpets, dash pads door panels, headliners. Plastics is the ticket for future car restorations; the right color and the right “grain”. Almost everything inside a modern car is plastic.

I think 1985 to 1995 Japanese cars will be the next collectible genre, and that the real classics of that group will be 1968-73 Datsun 510s, Toyota Celicas and Early Subarus. Corollas and Camrys won’t be especially valuable, but they’ll be as ubiquitous at car shows as the Ford Model A. Remember, the average Eighties car will be as different in 2030 as a Model T was in the Sixties. We’ll all have solar powered flying cars by then.

38

I would like to see a Nissan Z car from the 1980’s-that isn’t swiss chesse. These cars rusted quickly, and the rust ate away the strut towers as well..such a car is dangerously unsafe. Yes, you might find a few of these cars in good shape-but not many. My wife had a 12 year old Nissan Stanza-somebody broke the RHS headlamp assembly. WE could NOT get a new assembly from a dealer anywhere-we would up going to 5 or 6 junkyards to find one. Parts for older Japanese cars are next to impossible to find.

39

You don’t have to find lots that are in good shape. I’m seriously thinking about picking up a first-generation Honda CRX and stuffing it in my garage for 10 years. People are ridiculously nostalgic about those.

40

They are, but I seriously doubt people will ever restore them. The 80s and 90s Japanese car scene is just a mess - most of the cars rusted horribly, parts are hard to find, and a lot of the survivors have ridiculous mods. My first new car purchase after college was a 1985 Honda Prelude (graphite grey with 5-speed), stolen months after I moved to Chicago. I’ve looked for another off and on over the years, and they’re just trashed and parts are hard to come by - everyone just suggest swapping in newer engines and such.