# When does the Bible stop being myth, lineage wise? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 23, 2018, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764 "2018-09-23T02:14:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/61 "2018-09-26T11:25:41Z")
Back to the lineage, I’ll note that with Luke’s geneology, the average length of a generation is ~19 years. With Matthew’s it’s 37. I think it’s reasonable to say that the average child is not born to a person in their late 30s, so Matthew’s genealogy is strongly out of the running and seems to have been written by someone who couldn’t be bothered to do some math. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/62 "2018-09-26T12:02:31Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Back to the lineage, I’ll note that with Luke’s geneology, the average length of a generation is ~19 years. With Matthew’s it’s 37. > > I think it’s reasonable to say that the average child is not born to a person in their late 30s, so Matthew’s genealogy is strongly out of the running and seems to have been written by someone who couldn’t be bothered to do some math. I disagree. Remember, the genealogy is traced through the males, who could and probably would have begat children at an older age than the mothers would have borne them. Plus, Abraham is supposed to have had Isaac when he was 100 years old. If you take seriously some of the reported ages like that, it’s going to pull the average up. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/63 "2018-09-26T13:00:36Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I disagree. Remember, the genealogy is traced through the males, who could and probably would have begat children at an older age than the mothers would have borne them. > > Plus, Abraham is supposed to have had Isaac when he was 100 years old. If you take seriously some of the reported ages like that, it’s going to pull the average up. The long ages only occur before David, not after. Everyone from David on has normal lifespans, that I am aware of. And yes, men can and do continue to have children into older age, but the average across dozens of generations would not be 37. Let’s take for example, the Emperors of Rome: > **[Family tree of Roman emperors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_the_Roman_emperors)** > > This is a family tree of Roman emperors, showing only the relationships between the emperors. > The emperors from Augustus to Commodus can be organised into one large family tree. > The emperors from Pertinax to the beginning of the Crisis can be organised into one large dynasty (see Severan dynasty family tree), one smaller family and two unrelated emperors. > The emperors during the fifty-year period of the Crisis can be organised into eight families and six unrelated emperors, although no family ... From Tiberius Claudius Nero to Caligula (all men) is 97 years and 4 men, or 24.25 years per generation - which seems fairly reasonable. I would agree that an average of 19 is a bit young, but within the realm of reason (the poor might have a faster turnaround rate than the nobility). 37 is not. Your average man isn’t having his final child at 74, nor (I suspect) are they having as many children through their 60s as they were in their 20s. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/64 "2018-09-26T13:27:17Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Plus, during the time that the Exodus was supposed to happen, the land that is now Israel [was occupied](https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/jerusalem/when-egyptian-pharaohs-ruled-bronze-age-jerusalem/) [by Egypt](https://www.archaeology.org/issues/262-1707/features/5627-jaffa-egypt-canaan-colony). So escaping slaves would be going from in the frying pan into a slightly cooler part of the frying pan. That is a good point and made me wonder whether the location was misattributed. From the path that Moses traveled, we know that he crossed some water and then a desert, and then ended up in the Northern Midian. I had always found it a bit strange that he crossed water, since that’s simply not necessary for that trip (though, obviously, if you can then why not?) But I do note that there was the Land of Punt, which was a trading partner with Egypt, and about which we don’t really know much. Punt would have existed somewhere around the Ethiopia/Somalia/Djibouti region, which is directly across a narrow channel from the Arabic Peninsula which would have been a big desert with not a lot in it at that point in time - much as Sinai was; the Ethiopians have some forgotten history of Jewish culture and faith, which is supposed to track back to ancient times; and Moses was a Levite - where “Levi” or “Priest” is believed to come from an ancient Yemeni word for Priest. (Yemen is the part of the Arabic Peninsula across from Djibouti.) At the time we’re speaking of, if there were any Semitic peoples in the Southern Arabic Peninsula, they would have been nomads - probably ancestors of the Midianites (who were, themselves, likely ancestors of the Nabataeans). Apparently, there is a volcanic island - Perim - at the narrowest point between Yemen and Djibouti, and there is an ancient Arabic legend that there was a land bridge there which was destroyed by an Earthquake: > **[Bab-el-Mandeb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bab-el-Mandeb)** > > The Bab-el-Mandeb (Arabic: باب المندب, lit. 'Gate of Lamentation', Tigrinya: ባብ ኣል ማንዳብ), the Gate of Grief or the Gate of Tears, is a strait between Yemen on the Arabian Peninsula and Djibouti and Eritrea in the Horn of Africa. It connects the Red Sea to the Gulf of Aden and by extension the Indian Ocean. > > The strait derives its name from the dangers attending its navigation or, according to an Arab legend, from the numbers who were drowned by an earthquake that separated the Arabian Peninsu... There is an ancient Ethiopian myth that Semitic people immigrated (the Ge’ez) around 1900 BC. There’s nothing to say that they weren’t then oppressed and later enslaved by the Puntites. Overall, I think I’ll have to look into it more, but I may have the start of a strong theory for the history of Moses. 😃 As to how this would get moved to Egypt? The Jews generally don’t seem to have been fond of Egyptian rule and the impetus for writing the OT seems largely to have been related to being freed from Egyptian influence and, instead, finding a new comfortable place in the Achaemenid Empire with more freedom. I could see them rewriting Egypt in as the bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![Pabitel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@Pabitel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pabitel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/65 "2018-09-26T13:29:16Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > ‘A bunch of old guys meet up and decide that circumcision is too rough of a requirement for entry into their religion.’ As I said, just like the Talmud. I wasn’t saying that the Council was a legend. I was saying that citing a “bunch of old guys meeting up” was consistent with local tradition. There may, or may not, have been an actual council. It may, or may not, have decreed the things attributed to it. Nothing in the text is proof of either. The text essentially says, “this is how I want things to be, and this bunch of old guys agree with me.” The only reason to mention it is to give added “authority” to the author. ---
**Author:** ![Pabitel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@Pabitel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pabitel)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/66 "2018-09-26T13:44:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > This first one is clearly false. Look the Egyptians raided that area from time immemorial, bring back loot and slaves, they have records of Habiru slaves. The author is not saying that no Semetic person ever set foot in Egypt. He is saying that the “Nation of Israel” was never held in bondage in Egypt proper. I, personally, think the stories stem from the retreat of Egypt from the middle east and the story evolved from, “the Egyptians used to occupy us and they left” to “Our great national hero freed us from the evil Egyptian tyrants and delivered us to the promised land.” ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/67 "2018-09-26T16:13:41Z")
> [@susan](#): > > The Book of Layla is my favorite. Begat me on my knees… Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Aescwynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Aescwynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aescwynn)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/68 "2018-09-26T17:58:52Z")
In _The Unauthorized Version_, British historian Robin Lane Fox talks about what constituted “history” to ancient writers. They mostly operated on the principle of “se non è vero, è ben trovato”: Even if it’s not true, it’s a good story. He says that Christians pestered Jews to learn which Old Testament books were considered to be canonical, so that they could demonstrate fulfillment of those texts by Jesus. Fox says that the Bible is “a Christian creation.” In his view, the likeliest areas of primary information in the Bible are Nehemiah, the last half of 2 Samuel, the two books of Kings, the Gospel of John, and the Acts. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/69 "2018-09-26T18:19:33Z")
> [@Aescwynn](#): > > He says that Christians pestered Jews to learn which Old Testament books were considered to be canonical, so that they could demonstrate fulfillment of those texts by Jesus. Fox says that the Bible is “a Christian creation.” Definitely, but I wouldn’t say ‘pestered.’ I think that it was more of a way to formulate a strong response to Christian claims. That’s why the deuterocanonical books were likely excluded. They provided perhaps a bit more ammunition for Christian claims, so they got axed as non-Scriptural. Similarly, it was determined that prophesy essentially ended at Ezra as a way to downplay Christian claims of prophesy. It might have been a way to nix John the Baptist from the equation. He seemed to enjoy quite a bit of popular support in the era and Christians were claiming that he put his seal on Jesus as Christ. By saying prophesy had ended at Ezra, they could claim John was either a non-prophet or simply a sage who was mistaken rather than a prophet of God declaring Jesus as Christ. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/70 "2018-09-26T19:10:35Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I would put a divider between Joseph and Jesus: based on what it says in the gospel, Jesus would only be related to Jesus through any half-brothers that Joseph sired of Mary. Joseph was not Jesus’ father, or the scripture is a lie. Luke 3:23, NIV, emphasis mine: Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, _so it was thought,_ of Joseph… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/71 "2018-09-26T19:52:54Z")
> [@Pabitel](#): > > The author is not saying that no Semetic person ever set foot in Egypt. He is saying that the “Nation of Israel” was never held in bondage in Egypt proper. Nope\>"t_he Israelites were never in Egypt_, " which is false. ---
**Author:** ![Pabitel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@Pabitel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pabitel)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/72 "2018-09-27T13:27:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nope\>"t_he Israelites were never in Egypt_, " which is false. Nope\> “The Isrealites” are, in this case, a nation. In that sense “The Isrealites were never in Egypt” is true. Some Semetic persons were doubtless in Egypt, and Babylon, and Phoenicia, etc. But the people who made up the “Nation of Israel” were never anywhere but the east coast of the Mediterranean, despite a few individuals who found themselves in foreign lands. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/73 "2018-09-27T15:02:56Z")
> [@Pabitel](#): > > Nope\> “The Isrealites” are, in this case, a nation. In that sense “The Isrealites were never in Egypt” is true. Some Semetic persons were doubtless in Egypt, and Babylon, and Phoenicia, etc. But the people who made up the “Nation of Israel” were never anywhere but the east coast of the Mediterranean, despite a few individuals who found themselves in foreign lands. [![](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos#/media/File:Egypt_Hyksos_Period.png) ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos#/media/File:Egypt_Hyksos_Period.png) > **[Babylonian captivity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity)** > > The Babylonian captivity or Babylonian exile is the period in Jewish history during which a large number of Judeans from the ancient Kingdom of Judah were forcibly relocated to Babylonia by the Neo-Babylonian Empire. The deportations occurred in multiple waves: After the siege of Jerusalem in 597 BCE, around 7,000 individuals were deported to Mesopotamia. Further deportations followed the destruction of Jerusalem and Solomon's Temple in 587 BCE. > In the biblical account, after the Battle of Carc... > **[Geʽez](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ge%27ez)** > > Geʽez (/ˈɡiːɛz/ or /ɡiːˈɛz/; ግዕዝ Gəʽ(ə)z .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}IPA: \[ˈɡɨʕ(ɨ)z\] ⓘ, and sometimes referred to in scholarly literature as Classical Ethiopic) is an ancient South Semitic language. The language originates from what is now northern Ethiopia and Eritrea. > Today, Geʽez is used as the main liturgical language of the... ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/74 "2018-09-27T19:12:26Z")
> [@Pabitel](#): > > Nope\> “The Isrealites” are, in this case, a nation. In that sense “The Isrealites were never in Egypt” is true. Some Semetic persons were doubtless in Egypt, and Babylon, and Phoenicia, etc. But the people who made up the “Nation of Israel” were never anywhere but the east coast of the Mediterranean, despite a few individuals who found themselves in foreign lands. This is either not true or semantic word twisting. Was the entire nation of Israel taken to Egypt, lock stock and last goat? No. But of course the Israelites were raided by the Egyptians and taken back as as slaves. Because EVERYONE in that area was raided by the Egyptians and taken back as as slaves. The Israelites were not somehow immune. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/75 "2018-09-28T05:22:11Z")
Sage Rat: > [@](#): > > The Mesha Stele (~840 BC) mentions Omri and says that he is of the House of David. Omri was of the northern kingdom, not the Davidic line. The House of David might have been mentioned in the Mesha Stele - it’s a somewhat controversial reconstruction idea - but in all likelihood, it does not say Omri was part of it. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/76 "2018-09-28T06:06:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > This is either not true or semantic word twisting. > > Was the entire nation of Israel taken to Egypt, lock stock and last goat? No. > > But of course the Israelites were raided by the Egyptians and taken back as as slaves. Because EVERYONE in that area was raided by the Egyptians and taken back as as slaves. The Israelites were not somehow immune. Exactly. The area is question was ruled by Egyptians for several centuries. If they _hadn’t_ brought slaves that would have been noteworthy. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/77 "2018-09-28T11:30:32Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Sage Rat: > > Omri was of the northern kingdom, not the Davidic line. The House of David might have been mentioned in the Mesha Stele - it’s a somewhat controversial reconstruction idea - but in all likelihood, it does not say Omri was part of it. I found the statement strange, but figured it must imply some cross marriage between the two lines. Further reading the Wikipedia article, I see that it is mentioned that the translation is fairly highly contested right there. (I’m sure I’ve read the page multiple times, but there are lots of little gotchas like that all over everything. 😛 ) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/78 "2018-09-28T12:12:03Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Does this count as evidence that King David was real? Sure, it’s evidence, “evidence” is a very broad term - by the same standards, the existence of the Japanese Imperial Treasures is “evidence” that the Sun once hid in a cave in Miyazaki Prefecture. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/79 "2018-09-28T13:45:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Sure, it’s evidence, “evidence” is a very broad term - by the same standards, the existence of the Japanese Imperial Treasures is “evidence” that the Sun once hid in a cave in Miyazaki Prefecture. I forgot to mention in my original post that the OT includes cites, when it comes to the kings: > **[Chronicles of the Kings of Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronicles_of_the_Kings_of_Israel)** > > The Chronicles of the Kings of Israel is a book that gives a more detailed account of the reigns of the kings of ancient Kingdom of Israel than that presented in the Hebrew Bible, and may have been the source from which parts of the biblical account were drawn. The book was likely compiled by or derived from the kings of Israel's own scribes, and is likely the source for the basic facts presented in the Bible. > The book is referred to a number of times in the Hebrew Bible, but was either not inc... > **[Chronicles of the Kings of Judah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronicles_of_the_Kings_of_Judah)** > > The Chronicles of the Kings of Judah is a Lost work that gives a more detailed account of the reigns of the kings of the ancient Kingdom of Judah that appears in the Hebrew Bible. It is not believed to be Books of Chronicles since it is implied by the writer of Books of Kings that it could be used as a significant supplement to the writings contained in that book itself and Books of Chronicles adds little information at best and there is also a discrepancy in the dates of certain events between ... > **[Non-canonical books referenced in the Bible](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-canonical_books_referenced_in_the_Bible)** > > The non-canonical books referenced in the Bible includes non-Biblical cultures and lost works of known or unknown status. By the "Bible" is meant those books recognized by Christians and Jews as being part of Old Testament (or Tanakh) as well as those recognized by most Christians as being part of the Biblical apocrypha or of the Deuterocanon. > It may also include books of the Anagignoskomena (Deuterocanonical books § In Eastern Orthodoxy) that are accepted only by Eastern Orthodox Christians. Fo... While these works are lost, it is not particularly far-fetched for a monarchy to keep records of their kings. Nor is it particularly far-fetched for a person to be named David nor that that person would produce children. Obviously, still doesn’t conclusively mean that David existed, and certainly not that he did anything mystical during his life but prove himself a war hero and seduce all the right women (which really seems to be the long-and-short of it if we read between the lines), but it is more likely that he existed if we have reason to think that they were taking records from earlier on and it’s a strange lie to create, since it’s sort of boring and there are more pointful lies to make. Though, one also suspects that there are likely to be reasons that these records disappeared from the face of the Earth following this. It is unlikely, for example, that there was a unified kingdom of Israel and Judah during this time and the records would probably reveal that fact. And, of course, the records would probably also mention what all temples were built and which gods they were built to, by each king. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2018, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764/80 "2018-09-28T13:54:03Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Sure, it’s evidence, “evidence” is a very broad term - by the same standards, the existence of the Japanese Imperial Treasures is “evidence” that the Sun once hid in a cave in Miyazaki Prefecture. It is evidence that by the 9th century foreign kings referred to a ‘nation’ that was an ally of Israel as the “House of David.” (There is a minority that debates that interpretation, but the large consensus is that this is so.) This does not mean that David was real, if we believe the Biblical timeline, this would have been about 150-200 years after David’s rule when this was written. According to that timeline, it would have been roughly 7 kings removed from David, so it was not immediately written at the time of David. It’s possible that David was a mythical figure in the same way that Julius Caesar might say that he was the descendant of Ascanius, the grandson of Venus. Personally, I would wager that David was real in the sense that a person named David existed ca. 1000 and exhibited a certain degree of political control over some portion of what is now called Israel. The lack of archaeological evidence to point to him being a major power player in the region makes me think that his exploits Biblically were exaggerated and likely some oral stories that involved other people got shifted onto him over time. I would guess that after the fall of the Egyptian New Kingdom, there was a power vacuum filled by various warlords and David was likely one of those warlords. This is when you start to see the rise of Philistia which were immigrant groups brought in by Egypt who after Egyptian collapse began expanding their own base. I would conjecture and this is purely conjecture that things were likely very brutal and unstable and the Israelite i.e. more original inhabitants were likely in the target of the new Phoenician invaders and David arose out of this chaos and brought a measure of stability to a relatively small group of villages and towns farther inland and got inserted into the oral tradition due to this stability and perhaps ability to stand up to the Philistine expansion. I think that as time went on he likely achieved a more mythic status as stories were added on to this very base story. Of course, I could be completely wrong and he could just be some Arthurian creation (of course, maybe Arthur was real too, who knows?) or a figure from some forgotten mythology or a patriarchal figure of a later line of kings that was inserted for legitimacy. Barring new discoveries, it’s just too hard to say. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-bible-stop-being-myth-lineage-wise/821764.md?page=5)