# When does the congressional obstructionism stop? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826 "2011-11-23T01:18:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/201 "2011-11-29T02:34:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It was not a roads and bridges bill… You are [dead wrong](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_93#New_Hampshire_plans): > [@](#): > > As part of the [2009 stimulus package](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009), New Hampshire is set to receive several million dollars in highway construction funds. One of the projects will be widening a portion of the highway between the Massachusetts border and Manchester. Bidding is set to begin in February 2009 with construction slated to begin in late 2009 or early 2010.[[23]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_93#cite_note-22) The plans call for the New Hampshire Department of Transportation to widen the southernmost 20 miles (32 km) of I-93 to four lanes in each direction, from the current two. In addition, all five interchanges along this length will be upgraded to accommodate larger amounts of traffic, including replacing many aging bridges. Smaller construction projects at some of the interchanges are already taking place.[[22]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_93#cite_note-monitor-21) According to plans filed by the state with US DOT, the project is scheduled to run from 2009 through 2016, with work starting at the Massachusetts line and moving northward to Manchester. The project is designed with an intermodal transit bent; new or improved park and ride facilities deployed at exits 1, 3 and 5 and a widened median strip that is designed to accommodate a planned commuter rail service between Boston and Manchester.[[24]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_93#cite_note-nhdot-background-23) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/202 "2011-11-29T02:35:48Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Again, you misunderstand the issue. > > Businesses don’t hire when demand is low. You own a widget factory. It has the capacity to make 100 widgets a day. Because of the economic downturn you can currently sell 50 widgets a day. So you lay off enough workforce so that you can make the 50 widgets. > > Why would you hire anyone? You already make as many widgets as you can sell. This is basic stuff. Your idea is worthless. businesses don’t hire when they’re saddled with a government health program. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/203 "2011-11-29T02:38:54Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You are [dead wrong](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_93#New_Hampshire_plans): :rolleyes: obviously there was some road pork in the bill. But a pork bill it was. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/204 "2011-11-29T02:39:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > businesses don’t hire when they’re saddled with a government health program. What was their excuse in 2008? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/205 "2011-11-29T02:43:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > businesses don’t hire when they’re saddled with a government health program. There is no government health program. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/206 "2011-11-29T02:43:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > businesses don’t hire when they’re saddled with a government health program. You’re flailing. Try to keep on topic. Don’t you see what you’re doing? You are shown wrong and you sidestep and ignore it, trying to turn the subject to something else. On the subject of the Affordable Care Act, I asked you earlier how it managed to cause job losses a year before it was created? Also cite how many jobs it has killed, please do this or retract it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/207 "2011-11-29T02:44:39Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > There is no government health program. you should go door to door and tell businesses it was all a big joke then. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/208 "2011-11-29T02:44:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > :rolleyes: obviously there was some road pork in the bill. But a pork bill it was. You are shown utterly and pathetically wrong and you have the nerve to roll eyes? Does that seem like something an honest debater does? It’s not our fault that you watch news that lies to you. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/209 "2011-11-29T02:52:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It was not a roads and bridges bill, it was a pork filled spend fest with no real structure to it. About a third of the cost of the stimulus was tax cuts. How many jobs did the [biggest two-year tax cut in history](http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2009/02/12/is-obama-stimulus-plan-also-the-biggest-tax-cut-ever) create? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/210 "2011-11-29T02:55:25Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > businesses don’t hire when they’re saddled with a government health program. We were talking about the stimulus. Please try to remember that the health care bill did not come into effect until over a year after the stimulus; well past the area we’re talking about to begin with. Whether or not ACA disincentivizes hiring is an entirely different discussion altogether. As said before, there’s a reason we tend to look down on those who watch Fox News. There are several problems with your debating; your faith in the utterly failed concept of supply-side economics is certainly not the least of them. But the problem that’s bothering people like me right now is something you _definitely_ got from fox news: your willingness to conflate entirely different issues altogether. If we were talking about Obama’s overall ability in regards to the jobs market, then yes, Obamacare would be relevant. But as far as I can see, the issue here is the effectiveness of the Stimulus. What’s more, you act as though it’s clear as day that Obamacare is a job-killer. It isn’t. In fact, its effects are not particularly well documented; we don’t _know_ whether or not it hurt or even helped the job market. But when I look overseas, it doesn’t quite seem to me like programs like the NHS and its ilk in German, France, and the UK are destroying the job market. I would appreciate it if you tried to work with at least some intellectual integrity. Conflating completely separate issues in a discussion is simply poor debating, period. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/211 "2011-11-29T04:12:40Z")
You guys DO realize you are arguing economics with someone whp thinks a two handed simultaneous double punch is the most deadly technique against an enraged chimp, right? Reality ain’t his forte. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/212 "2011-11-29T15:36:27Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > You guys DO realize you are arguing economics with someone whp thinks a two handed simultaneous double punch is the most deadly technique against an enraged chimp, right? Reality ain’t his forte. Double Monkey Punch™ is unstoppable. Who cares what the laws of physics say! ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/213 "2011-11-29T16:03:44Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > You guys DO realize you are arguing economics with someone whp thinks a two handed simultaneous double punch is the most deadly technique against an enraged chimp, right? I think what most of us are arguing is that the most effective attack on the deficit is a double-fisted tax increase on those making more than $250,000, so I’m not quite sure why he disagrees with us. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/214 "2011-11-29T16:08:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > :rolleyes: obviously there was some road pork in the bill. But a pork bill it was. Do you think the stimulus money was all used by welfare queens to light cigars with $100 bills while riding in their mythical Cadillacs? When you start off with an \*a priori \*assumption that every penny spent by the government is wasted, I guess it’s not surprising when you conclude that stimulus money spent by the government was wasted. It’s quite a convenient way of looking at the world - saves a lot of thinking I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/215 "2011-11-29T16:47:38Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Do you think the stimulus money was all used by welfare queens to light cigars with $100 bills while riding in their mythical Cadillacs? > > When you start off with an \*a priori \*assumption that every penny spent by the government is wasted, I guess it’s not surprising when you conclude that stimulus money spent by the government was wasted. > > It’s quite a convenient way of looking at the world - saves a lot of thinking I guess. Nitpick: Welfare queens smoke menthol cigarettes, not cigars. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/216 "2011-11-29T17:38:50Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I think what most of us are arguing is that the most effective attack on the deficit is a double-fisted tax increase on those making more than $250,000, so I’m not quite sure why he disagrees with us. This gave me a good laugh on the bus to work, thanks. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826.md?page=10)