# When does the congressional obstructionism stop? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826 "2011-11-23T01:18:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/81 "2011-11-24T23:41:32Z")
Republicans want to cut entitlements and domestic spending. Democrats have offered to cut entitlements and domestic spending at a rate of [six dollars of cuts for every dollar of revenue increases](http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3605). Republicans offered revenue increases, but at a ratio of something like [$100 in spending cuts for every dollar of revenue increases](http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/11/01/358669/super-committee-republicans-800-billion-tax-cuts/). How is this negotiating in good faith? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/82 "2011-11-25T00:08:32Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How is this negotiating in good faith? It’s not, nor is it supposed to be. But notice that Republicans did present an offer, and it’s Democrats refusing, so who is being obstructionists? The Democrats are always free to roll over and play dead. Would you like that? Do you want $100 in cuts for every $1 in revenue or would Dems voting for that bother you? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/83 "2011-11-25T00:10:57Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > At any time, the Democrats could just do what ever the Republicans want (see War, Iraq; Taxes, lowered; Horrible Policies, Patriot Act) and obstructionism ends, how many of you want to see that? History has shown that if the Democrats do whatever the Republicans want, then the Republicans demands will change to be even more to the right than before. If the Democrats currently agree to everything that the Republicans in the Supercommittee want, they would then change their demands to include elimination of tax on millionaires in entirety, and for Obama to leave the Whitehouse in tar and feathers. They cannot be reasoned with. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/84 "2011-11-25T00:12:11Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > It’s not, nor is it supposed to be. But notice that Republicans did present an offer, and it’s Democrats refusing, so who is being obstructionists? The Republicans. They have taken tax rate increases off the table. Obstructionists. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/85 "2011-11-25T00:39:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The Republicans. They have taken tax rate increases off the table. Obstructionists. This contradicts your earlier post. The Republicans do have a plan, that the Democrats could support. Just because they have a plan you don’t like doesn’t mean they are any more or any less obstructionist. This could all be over tomorrow (or when ever they get back from vacation) if the Dems wanted to pass a Republican proposal. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > History has shown that if the Democrats do whatever the Republicans want, then the Republicans demands will change to be even more to the right than before. Eventually though, they would exceed a point where the majority of voters are comfortable. Their job is to get votes, that’s it. If doing something gets them votes, they’ll do that thing. If the Dems suddenly made themselves as far right as is humanly possible, and moving left would get the Republicans votes, they would move left. Like I said before, the problem isn’t the Republican Party, it’s the voters that keep giving them money. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/86 "2011-11-25T00:41:53Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > This contradicts your earlier post. No, it doesn’t. > [@](#): > > The Republicans do have a plan, that the Democrats could support. Just because they have a plan you don’t like doesn’t mean they are any more or any less obstructionist. Yes, it does. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/87 "2011-11-25T01:51:03Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > I fail to see where they presented evidence of anything to the sort other than a subjective analysis of his term thus far. I don’t want to derail this thread about Congressional obstructionism… Like posting that the president is weak and disappeared for political reasons? No, you wouldn’t want to derail a thread like that. As I’m sure you wouldn’t want to dismiss replies to your subjective analysis as just “subjective analysis”. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/88 "2011-11-25T01:52:58Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Republicans offered revenue increases > [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The Republicans. They have taken tax rate increases off the table. Obstructionists. See a problem with those two statements? If the Republicans put forward a plan, and the Democrats don’t support it, that makes Democrats the obstructionists. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/89 "2011-11-25T01:57:49Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > This contradicts your earlier post. The Republicans do have a plan, that the Democrats could support. Just because they have a plan you don’t like doesn’t mean they are any more or any less obstructionist. This could all be over tomorrow (or when ever they get back from vacation) if the Dems wanted to pass a Republican proposal. Let’s say that the Republicans propose a plan which allows them to kick all the Democrats in the groin and forces the Democrats to change the name of their party to the Neener Neener Poopyhead Party. It’s a valid proposal, right? Therefore the Democrats - excuse me, the Neener Neener Poopyheads - must be being obstructionist not to accept it. There must be an element of good faith involved. Based on recent Republican behavior whereby even where multiple concessions are made to appease them they nevertheless refuse to support Democratic legislation, the onus is now on them to demonstrate any sort of good faith. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/90 "2011-11-25T02:36:28Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > See If the Republicans put forward a plan, and the Democrats don’t support it, that makes Democrats the obstructionists. No it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/91 "2011-11-25T13:25:24Z")
Now it’s the **Fear Itself** Show. At least now we know what results when you type with a jerking knee. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/92 "2011-11-25T14:11:19Z")
Much like the Republicans offer in Congress, it is not the content that counts, it is the timing. According to **emack’s** logic, If I have the last response, the onus is on my adversaries to respond. All I have to do to win this argument is volley it back. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/93 "2011-11-25T15:01:39Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > That reminds me of the rote criticism about Obama being weak on terrorism, until he killed bin Laden. I wasn’t aware the President killed bin Laden. Could of sworn it was the military which is now under extreme budget cuts thanks in part to his hands off approach. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/94 "2011-11-25T15:05:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I wasn’t aware the President killed bin Laden. Could of sworn it was the military which is now under extreme budget cuts thanks in part to his hands off approach. Which is what the Republicans requested. Make up your mind. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/95 "2011-11-25T15:29:59Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Which is what the Republicans requested. Make up your mind. uh, Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/96 "2011-11-25T15:32:31Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Much like the Republicans offer in Congress, it is not the content that counts, it is the timing. According to **emack’s** logic, If I have the last response, the onus is on my adversaries to respond. All I have to do to win this argument is volley it back. You’re “us versus them” thinking is everything that is wrong with congress. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/97 "2011-11-25T15:34:46Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Much like the Republicans offer in Congress, it is not the content that counts, it is the timing. According to **emack’s** logic, If I have the last response, the onus is on my adversaries to respond. All I have to do to win this argument is volley it back. That’s right, you’re being obstructionist. And to make it stop all you have to do his agree with me. So why won’t you? Is winning more important to you than moving things forward? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/98 "2011-11-25T15:40:08Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > That’s right, you’re being obstructionist. And to make it stop all you have to do his agree with me. So why won’t you? Is winning more important to you than moving things forward? Agreeing with you is moving things backwards. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/99 "2011-11-25T16:05:41Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Agreeing with you is moving things backwards. No it’s not, just agree with me and we can move forward. Why are you trying to hold things up? What do you have to gain by continuing this? I’ve put forward an answer that addresses all of this, it seems as if your ego is getting in the way. Which oddly enough is why congressional obstructionism isn’t going to end. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/100 "2011-11-25T16:54:50Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > That’s right, you’re being obstructionist. And to make it stop all you have to do his agree with me. So why won’t you? Is winning more important to you than moving things forward? Why don’t you agree with everyone else that your position is silly? All you have to do is to agree, and we can move on. Is winning more important to you than moving things forward? You are being obstructionist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826.md?page=6)