# When does the congressional obstructionism stop? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 23, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826 "2011-11-23T01:18:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/141 "2011-11-27T02:52:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > His only role was to give it a thumbs up or down based on the information provided him so he get’s a pat on the back for making the decision since it was based on probability and not a signed autographed picture of OBL standing in front of the building. If I didn’t give props to that on this board I certainly did in discussion with other people. Kudos for that. > [@Magiver](#): > > It wasn’t a sure thing that we had the right location so in that respect it was gutsy. I suppose it was possible that we could attack the wrong location without killing innocent people and mitigate the political fallout but the risk was certainly there. Well, it’s good to see at least a grudging acknowledgment of Obama’s role. I realize the subject is off topic, but repeated accusations of weak leadership from Obama can’t expect to go unchallenged. I’ll say one more thing about it and then let it go. History says the the president of the time _who made the decision_ was responsible for dropping the bomb on Hiroshima, not the air force or the bombardier of the Enola Gay. The same will be true of bin Laden’s killing. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/142 "2011-11-27T05:50:31Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > That’s not a given. And what stops the United States from defaulting on loans when debt limits exceed our ability to pay? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/143 "2011-11-27T07:18:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And what stops the United States from defaulting on loans when debt limits exceed our ability to pay? When do you think that’s going to happen? As I said, we can balance the budget in five years if we change no laws. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/144 "2011-11-27T12:50:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > And what stops the United States from defaulting on loans when debt limits exceed our ability to pay? The constitutional power to raise taxes. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/145 "2011-11-27T14:34:47Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The constitutional power to raise taxes. Yeah, I hope so, but let’s add a [wealth tax](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_tax) amendment to that just to be safe. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/146 "2011-11-27T15:22:16Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > When do you think that’s going to happen? As I said, we can balance the budget in five years if we change no laws. So you think Congress is going to go on a 5 year vacation. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/147 "2011-11-27T15:36:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > So you think Congress is going to go on a 5 year vacation. No. I was trying to explain to you that it is well within our power to get the deficit on order without draconian action. Now that you know that, when do you think we’re going to default? The whole point was that you have a chicken-little mania that we’re going to default on our debts. Aside from Republicans willingly and needlessly throwing another tantrum on the debt ceiling, what makes you think that this is likely? Isn’t the answer that we aren’t all in the same boat? That the default of Greece has nothing to do with us? That you are claiming we are going to default because it bolsters your ideological desire to cut areas of government that you disagree with? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/148 "2011-11-27T20:53:59Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > No. I was trying to explain to you that it is well within our power to get the deficit on order without draconian action. > > Now that you know that, when do you think we’re going to default? It depends, when do you think we’ll stop spending more than is taken in? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/149 "2011-11-27T21:01:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It depends, when do you think we’ll stop spending more than is taken in? We are not on a fixed income. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/150 "2011-11-27T21:19:44Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > We are not on a fixed income. no, but we appear to be on a spending program that consists of income +10%. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/151 "2011-11-27T21:53:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It depends, when do you think we’ll stop spending more than is taken in? Why do you consider our income to be fixed? Why do you think we can never ask the wealthiest to start paying their fair share again? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/152 "2011-11-27T22:00:49Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Why do you consider our income to be fixed? Why do you think we can never ask the wealthiest to start paying their fair share again? I never made any statements regarding fixed revenue streams. Your desire to spend other people’s money not withstanding, I referred to Congress’s ability to spend more than is taken in regardless of how much is taken in. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/153 "2011-11-27T22:05:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I never made any statements regarding fixed revenue streams. Your desire to spend other people’s money not withstanding, I referred to Congress’s ability to spend more than is taken in regardless of how much is taken in. All this stems from you making a claim that we’re helpless and without hope of not defaulting. I showed you that we can balance the budget by literally taking no action. You’re weaving around here. How about admitting you were wrong? As an aside, if you want us to live within our means, be sure to vote Democrat. Republicans, as of late, are unable to do basic math. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/154 "2011-11-27T22:23:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > no, but we appear to be on a spending program that consists of income +10%. If your spending program is income + 10%, then you have a choice; raise income or cut expenses. Yet the Republicans seem to be content to continue to cut income as the only route, not seeming to realize that income (ie tax rates) were higher in the past, with no damage to the economy. The bill of goods that the Republicans continue to sell is that raising taxes will lead to al manner of horrible things. When they cut taxes for the wealthy years ago, this was supposed to lead to lots of jobs, and a “trickle down” of benefits for the non-wealthy. THIS DID NOT HAPPEN. Now they want to continue with tax policies that DO NOT WORK. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/155 "2011-11-27T22:27:01Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > All this stems from you making a claim that we’re helpless and without hope of not defaulting. I showed you that we can balance the budget by literally taking no action. > > You’re weaving around here. How about admitting you were wrong? Of course it’s possible to balance a budget but congress has shown no signs of doing it. When was the last time they did that? > [@Lobohan](#): > > As an aside, if you want us to live within our means, be sure to vote Democrat. Republicans, as of late, are unable to do basic math. Thank you so much for making me laugh. You’ve done your good deed for the day. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/156 "2011-11-27T22:28:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I never made any statements regarding fixed revenue streams. Please. It’s inherent in everything you have posted here. You have discussed only the “need” to cut spending (but almost nothing about where to cut, of course, but that’s par for the course). You have said nothing at all about restoring the revenue stream we had the last time we had a booming economy and a balanced budget (which you could look up, since you don’t remember it). So don’t pretend. ETA: > [@](#): > > Of course it’s possible to balance a budget but congress has shown no signs of doing it. When was the last time they did that? Gawdamighty, you really _don’t_ know, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/157 "2011-11-27T22:29:14Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > If your spending program is income + 10%, then you have a choice; raise income or cut expenses. That doesn’t change the formula. Raise or lower income… cut expenses… doesn’t matter as long as more money is spent by Congress than taken in. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/158 "2011-11-27T22:30:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Of course it’s possible to balance a budget but congress has shown no signs of doing it. When was the last time they did that? When Clinton was president. Look it up. > [@](#): > > Thank you so much for making me laugh. You’ve done your good deed for the day. I can only expose factual information. I can’t force you to take it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/159 "2011-11-27T22:56:30Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > When Clinton was president. Look it up. President’s don’t make the budget, Congress does. That was the Congress of Gingrich. > [@Lobohan](#): > > I can only expose factual information. I can’t force you to take it seriously. Factually it was a Republican Congress that produced the last balanced budget. I knew this when I asked the question. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826/160 "2011-11-27T22:59:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Please. It’s inherent in everything you have posted here. You have discussed only the “need” to cut spending (but almost nothing about where to cut, of course, but that’s par for the course). You have said nothing at all about restoring the revenue stream we had the last time we had a booming economy and a balanced budget (which you could look up, since you don’t remember it). So don’t pretend. Yes, I talked about increasing revenue streams, just not raising taxes during a recession. They are not the same thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-congressional-obstructionism-stop/603826.md?page=9)