# When does the President of the U.S. have the legal right to invalidate a previous President's pardon(s)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 17, 2025, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737 "2025-03-17T19:25:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/1 "2025-03-17T19:25:02Z")
Pretty much what it says in the title, and posted because of very recent events. ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/2 "2025-03-17T19:33:32Z")
Not a lawyer or Constitutional scholar but I can’t imagine you can just invalidate a pardon. If so the next Dem pres can invalidate the Jan 6th pardons and send those folks back to jail. A very slippery slope. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/3 "2025-03-17T19:33:38Z")
IANAL. My understanding is there is no legal way to revoke a Presidential pardon, its a constitutional right of the POTUS to grant them, there is no un-grant privilege in the constitution. Also, to do so would also be against the Constitutional right agaisnt being subject to Ex-Post Facto laws. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/4 "2025-03-17T19:51:28Z")
The only scenario I can imagine where a presidential pardon could be legally revoked would be if a future president was able to make a legally convincing argument that the pardoning president had not legally been president at the time the pardon was issued. For example, the Confederate Constitution gave the Confederate President the power to issue pardons. So Jefferson Davis may have pardoned some people based on this and released them from prison. But once the United States reasserted its authority over the southern states, it did not have to recognize those pardons and could have re-imprisoned the people in question. Some scenario could occur in the future (and is not as unthinkable as it might have once been) in which there is a contested election and two different people claim to be the President of the United States. If the situation goes on for some time, pardons might be issued by both men. When the dispute is resolved and we once again have a single President, that President would not have to recognize the legality of the other President’s pardons. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/5 "2025-03-17T20:43:24Z")
I thought I heard on the news that Trump claimed there was a problem with Biden’s signature, or with the timing of the pardons. I hope it goes to court and Trump loses, although you never know what tricks he has up his sleeve. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/6 "2025-03-17T20:45:21Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > I thought I heard on the news that Trump claimed there was a problem with Biden’s signature, or with the timing of the pardons. Trump is saying Biden used an [Autopen](https://damilic.com/autopen-products/office-signature-machines) (a machine that writes signatures) to sign the pardons. Since Biden did not sign them personally they do not count (according to Trump). I wonder if Trump personally signed all his Jan. 6 pardons? Trump doesn’t seem like the kind of guy to be bothered to do that. > **[Trump claims Biden pardons are 'VOID,' alleging they were signed via autopen](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-claims-biden-pardons-void-alleging-were-signed-via-autopen)** > > President Donald Trump claimed pardons for members of the Jan. 6 House Select Committee, and others, are not valid because former President Joe Biden signed them with an autopen. > President Donald Trump claimed that former President Joe Biden’s pardons of lawmakers who served on the House Select Committee to investigate the Jan. 6 Capitol riot, and others, are “VOID,” alleging that they had been signed via an autopen and that Biden did not even know about them. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/7 "2025-03-17T20:59:37Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Trump is saying Biden used an [Autopen](https://damilic.com/autopen-products/office-signature-machines) (a machine that writes signatures) to sign the pardons. Since Biden did not sign them personally they do not count (according to Trump). Obama used an autopen to sign the extension of the Bush tax cuts in 2013 and I don’t recall any Republicans complaining about that. According to Snopes, the DOJ opined under Bush II that it was fully legal to sign legislation with one, and most presidents since Truman have used them for signing things like officers’ commissions. > **[Biden may have signed documents with autopen — like many presidents before him](https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/03/13/biden-autopen-signature-documents/)** > > U.S. presidents have used autopens since Thomas Jefferson; the first to use an autopen to sign a law was Barack Obama. This is gonna be a huge nothingberder. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/8 "2025-03-17T21:03:53Z")
Pretty rich for a guy who didn’t put his hand in the bible while being sworn in…to the presidency! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/9 "2025-03-17T21:06:15Z")
To be fair, that is not a requirement when taking the oath of office. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/10 "2025-03-17T21:07:52Z")
But Trump argued that the POTUS could declassify docments just by thinking about them. Didn’t Biden also verbally pardon his son by discussing his reason why? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/11 "2025-03-17T21:28:35Z")
[Moderating] The factual answer to this question is simple, and was given in the first reply, and is widely known (including, I suspect, by the OP). Anything beyond that is for P&E. Moving. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/12 "2025-03-17T21:32:03Z")
Very straightforward. The President has the legal right to invalidate a previous President’s pardon when five out of nine Supreme Court Justices decide that he can. ---
**Author:** ![GailForce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@GailForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GailForce)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/13 "2025-03-17T21:32:08Z")
He’s just so dumb. Most of Biden’s pardons were preemptive, largely for the convenience of those receiving them, whose charges were likely to be dismissed and whose cases, for those few that went to trial, would overwhelmingly be won by the defendants. Trump’s pardons, on the other hand, were for people who had overwhelmingly lost their casses and were serving long prison terms. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/14 "2025-03-17T21:55:13Z")
Never. Is never good for you? ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/15 "2025-03-17T22:36:15Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > The President has the legal right to invalidate a previous President’s pardon when five out of nine Supreme Court Justices decide that he can. Everyone Trump tells the DOJ to indict will have the right to take their case all the way to the SC. Which they will have to do since apparently his admin will not follow court orders from anyone else. They will get to spend tens of thousands of dollars and be harassed and threatened for as long as that takes. That might be enough for Trump if the SC tells him to knock it off. Or he could just tell them to pound sand. I guess we will see. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/16 "2025-03-17T22:39:59Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > …take their case all the way to the SC. Which they will have to do since apparently his admin will not follow court orders from anyone else. Trump-101. It is what he has done for decades. Just live in the courts forever (appeal after appeal and if one runs out find a different argument and start again) and keep doing your thing in the mean-time. And the SC pretty much gave him carte blanche already so Trump is more than happy to do this dance (especially since he does not have to pay for it). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/17 "2025-03-17T22:40:28Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > The President has the legal right to invalidate a previous President’s pardon when five out of nine Supreme Court Justices decide that he can. According to the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court has no authority to review pardons. > **[The Supreme Court and the president’s pardon power - SCOTUSblog](https://www.scotusblog.com/2021/01/the-supreme-court-and-the-presidents-pardon-power/)** > > Correction appended. The Constitution gives the president the power “to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of impeachment.” In the days before Christmas, President Donald Trump used this power to... > [@](#): > > The Supreme Court has made clear that, subject to the exception for impeachment, the president’s power to grant pardons is “unlimited,” with virtually no oversight or limiting role for Congress. In Ex parte Garland, which involved President Andrew Johnson’s pardon of a lawyer who had served in the legislature of the Confederacy, the court indicated that the president’s pardon power covers all federal offenses. The president can issue a pardon at any point after a crime is committed and before, during or after criminal proceedings have taken place… > > …And in Connecticut Board of Pardons v. Dumschat, the court emphasized that pardons “have not traditionally been the business of courts; as such, they are rarely, if ever, appropriate subjects for judicial review.” ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/18 "2025-03-17T22:43:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > According to the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court has no authority to review pardons. But they would not be reviewing the pardons. They would be reviewing if the pardons actually happened as they were supposed to. Given this SC…I wouldn’t trust them to refuse this. > [@Smapti](#): > > Pardons v. Dumschat As an aside, that person probably had a really hard time in school with a name like that. ---
**Author:** ![Arjuna34](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Arjuna34](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arjuna34)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/19 "2025-03-17T23:01:41Z")
More specifically, Trump is claiming they were signed by autopen, AND that Biden was not even aware of the pardons. His claim is a _bit unclear_, but seemingly he’s saying there’s possibly nothing wrong with the autopen signature concept per-se, but combined with Biden not even being aware of the pardons they are invalid. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/20 "2025-03-17T23:04:14Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > This is gonna be a huge nothingberder. I would agree that the autopen claim is unlikely to be prominently featured in Trump administration legal filings, if that is what you mean. This may be the most significant sentence in Trump’s Truth Social post: > [@](#): > > Therefore, those on the Unselect Committee, who destroyed and deleted ALL evidence obtained during their two year Witch Hunt of me, and many other innocent people, should fully understand that they are subject to investigation at the highest level. I think this is a message for Patel and Bondi. They still have time before the big guy gets totally annoyed, but Trump wants to see his enemies arrested. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737.md?page=2)