# When does the President of the U.S. have the legal right to invalidate a previous President's pardon(s)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 17, 2025, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737 "2025-03-17T19:25:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/21 "2025-03-17T23:09:01Z")
> [@Arjuna34](#): > > AND that Biden was not even aware of the pardons Which is pretty easily disproven since he talked about them to the press at the time; > **[Biden pardons Fauci, Milley and the Jan. 6 panel. It's a guard against...](https://apnews.com/article/biden-trump-fauci-milley-pardons-january-6-3cba287f89051513fb48d7ae700ae747)** > > The heads of the Jan. 6 committee say they're grateful for the decision by President Joe Biden to pardon them “not for breaking the law but for upholding it.” > [@](#): > > “The issuance of these pardons should not be mistaken as an acknowledgment that any individual engaged in any wrongdoing, nor should acceptance be misconstrued as an admission of guilt for any offense,” Biden said in a statement. “Our nation owes these public servants a debt of gratitude for their tireless commitment to our country.” ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/22 "2025-03-17T23:10:50Z")
> [@Arjuna34](#): > > …Biden not even being aware of the pardons they are invalid. I have a funny image of an intern feeding pardon papers he sold on E-Bay into the autopen machine at midnight. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Arjuna34](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Arjuna34](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arjuna34)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2025, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/23 "2025-03-17T23:50:26Z")
Fake news! ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/24 "2025-03-18T00:51:53Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Obama used an autopen to sign the extension of the Bush tax cuts in 2013 and I don’t recall any Republicans complaining about that. House Republicans criticized President Obama for his use of the autopen in 2011, and asked him to affix his signature personally. (Notably, President Obama was on a different continent than the bill to which his signature was attached.) > **[AutopenLetter061711a.pdf](https://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/AutopenLetter061711a.pdf)** > > 127.54 KB ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/25 "2025-03-18T00:52:24Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > House Republicans criticized President Obama for his use of the autopen in 2011, and asked him to affix his signature personally. (sigh) I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised. We could’ve had _nice things_. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/26 "2025-03-18T20:08:48Z")
I guess my question here is what do those who received pardons do when Bondi or Patel send investigators around? Or when a House committee subpoenas them to appear? Can they simply ignore them or will they be forced to retain counsel and fight it out in court? It seems that is what the pardons are meant to prevent. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/27 "2025-03-18T20:49:42Z")
I got to looking at some of my cash, and I’m worried. I don’t think the Treasury Secretary actually signed my money! I looked at two bills, and the sig was identical! ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/28 "2025-03-18T21:25:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Pretty much what it says in the title, and posted because of very recent events. I think the only answer is when the president no longer burdens themself with worries about the rule of law. During the Biden administration, Trump instructed the Republicans to use the threat of a government shutdown as a bargaining chip. A reporter noted that Trump had said something quite different when he was president, when he argued that nobody should use the threat of a government shutdown as a bargaining chip. When asked why his position has changed, Trump replied, “I’m not the president right now.” Rules for thee but none for me. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/29 "2025-03-18T22:15:49Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > They will get to spend tens of thousands of dollars and be harassed and threatened for as long as that takes. That might be enough for Trump if the SC tells him to knock it off. That was enough for Trump in his first term. Here is a page showing a timeline of his efforts to use investigations and threats of prosecution to harass people he didn’t like. > **[Chronology of a Dozen Times Trump Pushed to Prosecute His Perceived Enemies](https://www.justsecurity.org/98703/chronology-trump-justice-department/)** > > 12 specific instances in which Trump used DOJ to go after his chosen political targets. Some cases succeeding more than might be imagined or remembered. You’ll note that things almost never got past the “investigation” stage to actually _prosecute_ anyone. The investigation and threats themselves were enough. He doesn’t need justice, he doesn’t need people behind bars. He just needs to cause pain for people regardless of the end result. It’s sort of a win-win for Trump. He doesn’t have to worry about the legality of what he’s doing, he doesn’t have to actually find any evidence of wrongdoing from anyone. He doesn’t have to drag things out for years waiting for the wheels of justice to put someone in jail. He just points his finger, an investigation happens, and anyone he doesn’t like has their life turned into a nightmare, even if they are completely innocent of everything they’re accused of. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2025, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737/30 "2025-03-18T22:23:52Z")
He also manages to get impressive head on a spike mileage out of each and every one of these persecutions/investigations: > **[Head on a spike](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_on_a_spike)** > > A head on a spike (also described as a head on a pike, a head on a stake, or a head on a spear) is a severed head that has been vertically impaled for display. This has been a custom in a number of cultures, typically either as part of a criminal penalty following execution or as a war trophy following a violent conflict. The symbolic value may change over time. It may give a warning to spectators. The head may be a human head or an animal head. > The earliest known archeological evidence for mou... [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-president-of-the-u-s-have-the-legal-right-to-invalidate-a-previous-presidents-pardon-s/1015737.md?page=1)