# When does the UK celebrate its own Independence Day? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 16, 2014, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257 "2014-07-16T09:28:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/41 "2014-07-16T16:16:27Z")
China has. Depending on what counts as “form”. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/42 "2014-07-16T16:22:50Z")
> [@RobDog](#): > > My knowledge of British history has been horribly exposed, like a Treen in a disabled spaceship. > > I blame a childhood blighted by Thatcher, frozen meals and Rod Stewart. Haha sorry for singling you out. I think most people, even quite historically knowledgeable ones, make bad assumptions about the medieval English constitution. I’m just sad enough to have read about it 😃 ---
**Author:** ![svd678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@svd678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/svd678)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/43 "2014-07-16T17:16:58Z")
If it didn’t come from England, where did John Adams get the idea of observing it with fireworks, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/44 "2014-07-16T17:20:37Z")
It was a war with lots of cannons and things. I don’t think it takes much imagination to commemorate an event like that with fireworks. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/45 "2014-07-16T18:15:15Z")
The Romans never “withdrew” from Britain. The military forces were taken away by the likes of Maximus and Constantine III to service their continental ambitions until the locals threw off the Roman yoke altogether in 408. ---
**Author:** ![dstarfire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dstarfire/32/5762_2.png) [@dstarfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dstarfire)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/46 "2014-07-16T18:40:50Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > But it’s not really a patriotic expression and more an excuse to light things on fire. Actually, that describes Independence Day (July 4th) for most Americans. I dread that week every year (most of the people in my neighborhood are irresponsible\* and inconsiderate\*\* when it comes to fireworks.) - don’t clean up afterwards \*\* light off for several days before and after the legal period ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/47 "2014-07-16T19:08:45Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > The Romans never “withdrew” from Britain. The military forces were taken away by the likes of Maximus and Constantine III to service their continental ambitions until the locals threw off the Roman yoke altogether in 408. Cite for the locals throwing off the Roman yoke? What little evidence we have from the fifth century seems to suggest that the British still thought of themselves as Romans. [Wiki has an article for everything](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groans_of_the_Britons). As mentioned above, the Welsh and Cornish do not celebrate an independence day because they have not been independent for hundreds of years. That makes me wonder how Native Americans in the US celebrate July 4th. I presume with fireworks and barbecues like everyone else, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen it discussed. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/48 "2014-07-16T19:16:20Z")
There were battles (my wife thinks they were Crecy and Poitiers) that severed the connection between England and Normandy and that would seem to be as near to Independence as they will get. Of course, there was the Act of Union between England and Scotland, but that is not independence. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/49 "2014-07-16T20:34:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Guy Fawkes’ Night isn’t actually a public holiday or anything, though. AFAIK every country that celebrates an independence or founding anniversary or whatever gives its public employees the day off and private employers mostly follow suit. Sure, but we don’t have such a day - bonfire night isn’t it - it’s only the closest thing we have in terms of look and feel. Our [public holidays](https://www.gov.uk/bank-holidays) are all either (originally) religious dates, or have no particular meaning at all. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/50 "2014-07-16T20:39:34Z")
> [@Johnny\_Cashless](#): > > Can I encourage you to speak only for yourself. Unless you are the Queen or Tony Blair or, given it’s the Internet, both. Do you disagree with something **njtt** said? If so, it would be more useful to have mentioned that. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Cashless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Johnny\_Cashless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Cashless)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/51 "2014-07-16T20:42:00Z")
I like the old joke about the Americans tourists who asked when the Magna Carta was signed. 1215, said the guide. Darn, we only missed it by two hours! I’ll get my coat … ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/52 "2014-07-16T20:43:14Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > There were battles (my wife thinks they were Crecy and Poitiers) that severed the connection between England and Normandy and that would seem to be as near to Independence as they will get. Of course, there was the Act of Union between England and Scotland, but that is not independence. Although it would be valid as a creation of our country. Pity that people tend to tread on eggshells about the subject and don’t want to offend the Scottish Nationalists. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Cashless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Johnny\_Cashless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Cashless)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/53 "2014-07-16T20:43:30Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Do you disagree with something **njtt** said? If so, it would be more useful to have mentioned that. Let me get this right, **njtt** is speaking for all Brits and you are speaking for him. Can I speak for you? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/54 "2014-07-16T20:51:11Z")
> [@Johnny\_Cashless](#): > > Let me get this right, **njtt** is speaking for all Brits and you are speaking for him. Can I speak for you? It’s not unusual for people on this board to make statements that they believe are general to their region. If other people disagree, they can state their reasons for disagreeing - preferable to telling the original speaker to shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/55 "2014-07-16T21:15:29Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > As mentioned above, the Welsh and Cornish do not celebrate an independence day because they have not been independent for hundreds of years. That makes me wonder how Native Americans in the US celebrate July 4th. I presume with fireworks and barbecues like everyone else, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen it discussed. That depends entirely on how you’re looking at it, though. You can always take a piece of land and break it up into smaller pieces and then say “How come my piece isn’t independent?” And you can almost certainly go back to some point in history and claim how it was then is how things are “supposed” to be. If Scotland votes for independence in September, I see no reason why they couldn’t hold another referendum 10 years later for Highlands independence. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/56 "2014-07-16T21:16:42Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > That depends entirely on how you’re looking at it, though. You can always take a piece of land and break it up into smaller pieces and then say “How come my piece isn’t independent?” And you can almost certainly go back to some point in history and claim how it was then is how things are “supposed” to be. If Scotland votes for independence in September, I see no reason why they couldn’t hold another referendum 10 years later for Highlands independence. Free Dal Riada! ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/57 "2014-07-16T21:56:11Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > China has. Depending on what counts as “form”. That’s a slippery slope when you start discussing continuity between different governments, especially for cases like China where the country spends a period of time split up under different rulers (most of the first half of the 20th century for China, if you assume we stop the timer after the Republic of China was forced to move their capital to Taipei rather than continue to assume that China has two government that both claim the whole). ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/58 "2014-07-16T22:07:42Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > That depends entirely on how you’re looking at it, though. You can always take a piece of land and break it up into smaller pieces and then say “How come my piece isn’t independent?” And you can almost certainly go back to some point in history and claim how it was then is how things are “supposed” to be. If Scotland votes for independence in September, I see no reason why they couldn’t hold another referendum 10 years later for Highlands independence. You speak as if you’re not aware that Wales was a military conquest by England. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/59 "2014-07-16T22:38:15Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > That’s a slippery slope when you start discussing continuity between different governments, especially for cases like China where the country spends a period of time split up under different rulers (most of the first half of the 20th century for China, if you assume we stop the timer after the Republic of China was forced to move their capital to Taipei rather than continue to assume that China has two government that both claim the whole). It’s obviously not the same government but it’s largely the same people in the same borders with no impediment to celebrating the same things. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/60 "2014-07-17T00:28:51Z")
To have an Independence day you have to have another country to be independent from and the UK absorbed and assimilated the Normans and the Vikings, the Romans just ran out of money. Also the notion of a country as a sovereign nation state is a fairly recent concept so that does beg the question what country was colonised orginally. US Independence only covered the territories of the original 13 British colonies. Though, I doubt that it stops the rest of the US having an independence day party. Maybe they have more than one. However, the UK has supplied a reason for having an Independence Day to 58 countries around the world. The other colonial powers were also responsible for a large number Independence days. You have to have been colonised to become independent. If you just get invaded and kick out the occupier after a few years, that is a Liberation day, which I am sure also merits a big firework party. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257.md?page=4)