# When does the UK celebrate its own Independence Day? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 16, 2014, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257 "2014-07-16T09:28:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/61 "2014-07-17T00:44:26Z")
The UK has roots so old, it lacks an Ur-myth. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/62 "2014-07-17T00:51:07Z")
There are lots of National Days out there. Any time a country has one, the local embassy takes out a full-page ad in Bangkok’s English-language newspapers. I can remember Sweden’s National Day because it’s June 6, D-Day. I know some American jokesters here who claim that’s what they’re celebrating every year. EDIT: Sweden has June 6 because, from [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Day_of_Sweden): **The tradition of celebrating this date began 1916 at the Stockholm Olympic Stadium, in honour of the election of King Gustav Vasa in 1523, as this was considered the foundation of modern Sweden.** ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/63 "2014-07-17T01:47:08Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > However, the UK has supplied a reason for having an Independence Day to 58 countries around the world. Except not all Commonwealth countries celebrate independence from the UK. The American/colonial liberation narrative does not apply to all Commonwealth countries. For instance, the national days for Canada, Australia and New Zealand are not about independence from the UK. Nation-building and national identity, yes, but not independence. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/64 "2014-07-17T02:00:00Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > In Colonial & post-Revolutionary America, the various Saints’ Days were occasions for celebrating ethnic pride–George, Andrew, David or Patrick No Saint Piran’s Day? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Cashless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Johnny\_Cashless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Cashless)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/65 "2014-07-17T06:41:50Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > It’s not unusual for people on this board to make statements that they believe are general to their region. If other people disagree, they can state their reasons for disagreeing - preferable to telling the original speaker to shut up. Well, we in Britain think that’s all rather presumptive and odd. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/66 "2014-07-17T07:28:08Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > There seems to be frequent discussion around the fact that we need more bank holidays, and someone always pipes up that April 23rd should be a national holiday because a) St George and b) Shakespeare’s birthday (supposedly). > > Except 1) That date is only of national interest to England, not the UK as a whole and 2) April 23rd is sandwiched between Easter and the May bank holiday, precisely the time when we don’t need another day off. > > I’d say ‘5th November/Bonfire Night/Guy Fawkes Night’ is the closest we get, as a day which most people are happy to celebrate and without religious connotations (anymore, anyway). It’s the only national celebration Cromwell _didn’t_ try to ban (unlike Christmas). We don’t get a day off for it though. If we are going to have another public holiday - and personally I think we should! - I’d vote for Trafalgar Day, 23 October. Not only is it nicely placed to break up that long drag from the end of August to Christmas but it celebrates a victory over Napoleonic hegemony and the prevention of a French invasion. (Yes, I know Napoleon had already broken up the Army of England: but it’s the thought that counts!) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/67 "2014-07-17T07:28:49Z")
> [@Johnny\_Cashless](#): > > Well, we in Britain think that’s all rather presumptive and odd. No we don’t. It’s normal for this community. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/68 "2014-07-17T08:08:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_Cashless](#): > > Well, we in Britain think that’s all rather presumptive and odd. We in Britain were most amused by this statement. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/69 "2014-07-17T08:34:48Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > To have an Independence day you have to have another country to be independent from and the UK absorbed and assimilated the Normans and the Vikings, the Romans just ran out of money. Also the notion of a country as a sovereign nation state is a fairly recent concept so that does beg the question what country was colonised orginally. US Independence only covered the territories of the original 13 British colonies. Though, I doubt that it stops the rest of the US having an independence day party. Maybe they have more than one. Like I mentioned upthread, in Texas we get two Independence Days, one in July (US independence from England) and one in March (Texan independence from Mexico). I suppose we could also claim one from Spain, but that’d be a stretch. In any case, we mostly only celebrate the one in July. Texan independence from Mexico is a point of small pride but mostly it’s just history, overshadowed by our annexation of the United States a few years later. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Cashless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Johnny\_Cashless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Cashless)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/70 "2014-07-17T09:36:05Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > It’s normal for this community. This is what we in Britain call an open goal. > [@SanVito](#): > > We in Britain were most amused by this statement. We in Britain are honoured. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/71 "2014-07-17T12:33:02Z")
I’m not sure if the OP is asking about national days (most countries have one, like, say, the king’s birthday) or about the functional equivalent of independance. If the former, France has bastille day (not called Bastille day, but simply 14 of July in France, by the way). If the latter, traditionally, the birth of France is dated back to the baptism of Clovis, in 492 (Clovis conquered most of what is now France and then some). However, this is an heirloom of the monarchy/catholic church (first Christian king). Dating France from the treaty of Verdun (843) dividing forever the Carolingian empire between a “French” and a “German” kingdom (plus a Lotharingian empire that wouldn’t survive in the middle) makes much more sense (plus the related “oath of Strasbourg” between the “French” and “German” kings is the first formal use of old French). Neither of these events is celebrated, though. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/72 "2014-07-17T12:50:25Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Like I mentioned upthread, in Texas we get two Independence Days, one in July (US independence from England) and one in March (Texan independence from Mexico). > > I suppose we could also claim one from Spain, but that’d be a stretch. In any case, we mostly only celebrate the one in July. Texan independence from Mexico is a point of small pride but mostly it’s just history, overshadowed by our annexation of the United States a few years later. Many _Tejanos_ celebrate Independence from Spain–on [Diez y Seis de Septiembre](http://www.tshaonline.org/day-by-day/30444)–usually in addition to July 4th. Because who doesn’t like a day off work, barbecue & fireworks? _Cinco de Mayo_ is another of the [Fiestas Patrias](http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/lkf06), celebrating a Mexican victory against French invaders; I think this holiday is more popular in the immigrant (& descendant of immigrant) community than in Mexico. It’s now become an excuse for _gringos_ to drink a bunch of tequila… San Jacinto Day isn’t a big public holiday, more a matter of commemoration. [Reenactments at the Battleground](http://www.sanjacinto-museum.org/The_Battle/Our_Annual_Reenactment/) have been featuring more guys in Mexican uniforms; the Texian outfits are (authentically) pretty scuzzy. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/73 "2014-07-17T12:56:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_Cashless](#): > > This is what we in Britain call an open goal. If this spat heats up we could have a new Civil War to commemorate. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/74 "2014-07-17T14:40:03Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I’m not sure if the OP is asking about national days (most countries have one, like, say, the king’s birthday) or about the functional equivalent of independance. Mostly just wondering how other countries commemorate the founding of their nation, whether it was via throwing off the yoke of foreign oppressors (a la America) or something akin to Remus & Romulus. I’m actually rather surprised that the UK has no “national founding day” equivalent (Battle of Hastings, anyone?) As for Guy Fawkes day, that always seemed to me a rather bizarre tradition – similar to celebrating Richard Reid Day by lighting our shoes on fire :dubious: – but if it’s just an excuse to get drunk and set off explosions, hey, I’m all for it. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/75 "2014-07-17T14:42:02Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > I’m actually rather surprised that the UK has no “national founding day” equivalent (Battle of Hastings, anyone?) The Battle of Hastings is an event significant to England, and was also, really, a defeat - not really something to celebrate (although it’s not seen as a mark of shame, either) It cannot be a national day for the whole of the UK. > [@](#): > > As for Guy Fawkes day, that always seemed to me a rather bizarre tradition – similar to celebrating Richard Reid Day by lighting our shoes on fire :dubious: – but if it’s just an excuse to get drunk and set off explosions, hey, I’m all for it. It was seen as a celebration of God’s deliverance of the King from the terrors of the Papists, and a sign that England is under God’s protection. Also, for many centuries there was an Act of Parliament making it illegal _not_ to celebrate. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/76 "2014-07-17T15:19:19Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Many _Tejanos_ celebrate Independence from Spain–on [Diez y Seis de Septiembre](http://www.tshaonline.org/day-by-day/30444)–usually in addition to July 4th. Language question: why is it written “diez y seis” rather than “dieciseis”? Is it an old-fashioned way of writing it? Is it a regional/dialect difference? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/77 "2014-07-17T15:30:30Z")
I’m guessing it’s an archaic form, like “four score and seven years”. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/78 "2014-07-17T16:33:34Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > I’m actually rather surprised that the UK has no “national founding day” equivalent (Battle of Hastings, anyone?) England (not the UK) existed before the Battle of Hastings. Anyway, if this is about celebrating the foundation of the UK, then the Treaty of Union between England and Scotland (22 July 1706) would be the obvious one. > [@buddha\_david](#): > > As for Guy Fawkes day, that always seemed to me a rather bizarre tradition – similar to celebrating Richard Reid Day by lighting our shoes on fire :dubious: – but if it’s just an excuse to get drunk and set off explosions, hey, I’m all for it. Yeah, well, it’s all we got 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/79 "2014-07-17T17:04:53Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Can’t the UK celebrate July 4th as “Good Riddance Day”? Sounds like as good a reason as any for a day off to eat BBQ and light explosives shaped like toys. As I mentioned in another thread, I sure as hell don’t work on 4 July for my British overlords. Also I make the British person in the house cook our tea which is only fair considering the small, rude remarks he directs at me all day. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257/80 "2014-07-17T17:35:19Z")
> [@Ms\_Boods](#): > > As I mentioned in another thread, I sure as hell don’t work on 4 July for my British overlords. Also I make the British person in the house cook our tea which is only fair considering the small, rude remarks he directs at me all day. Sore losers. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-does-the-uk-celebrate-its-own-independence-day/693257.md?page=5)