# When Gay Culture Goes Mainstream **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 15, 2011, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989 "2011-11-15T06:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/21 "2011-11-15T14:53:02Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I’m just curious, for those of you who had very little knowledge of gay culture, was there anything you liked that you later became surprised to learn was connected to gay culture? Diet soda. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/22 "2011-11-15T15:10:12Z")
this reminds me of growing up in the 50s-60s down south. a friend had a father who wouldn’t let her listen to blacks singing anything on the radio. (our only pre-teen to teen source of new music). soon she couldn’t listen to much at all. glad my father wasn’t like that. I’m also reminded of my 6th grade teacher who introduced us to the musical theatre, even taking the class on a field trip downtown to see behind the scenes of a ‘real’ theatre. why yes, it turns out that teacher was gay. but acknowledging the gayness of the musicals or the teacher was a long way off. I don’t think gays/blacks invented everything, but avoiding gay culture has always been impossible, as has avoiding black spirituals or whatever. It’s acknowledging it that has changed, I think. well that was a pretty dumb post - but I think I’ll leave it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/23 "2011-11-15T15:19:49Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Wasn’t the entire rave scene of the '90s, which had a profound effect on UK culture, straight out of NYC gay clubs? **Disco** was, but I never heard that before about Rave. What exactly **was** Rave’s effect on UK culture? (Ya can’t hardly find Raves any more in the U.S., I’ve tried recently.) ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/24 "2011-11-15T15:27:22Z")
I want to get the Jes and homosexuals out of the theatre. Without Jews and homosexuals, you have no theatre. The Producers (paraphrased) ---
**Author:** ![Wargamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Wargamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wargamer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/25 "2011-11-15T15:31:43Z")
> [@Stauderhorse](#): > > YMCA and the Village People in general. > > Regarding The Wizard of Oz, the gay community at the time really loved Judy Garland. In addition, the general plot of the movie can be seen as a parallel to the struggle of being gay in a world where that wasn’t accepted. Unhappy person living in a drab world searches for and finds a bright, colorful place where she can express herself = pretty much the gay dream at that point (and still is). I had no clue about The Village People. Then again, I was only ten at the time and not very worldly, even for a ten year old. ---
**Author:** ![well\_he\_s\_back](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3ab097/32.png) [@well\_he\_s\_back](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/well_he_s_back)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/26 "2011-11-15T15:39:16Z")
when I said “I don’t think gays/blacks invented everything,” the follow up line should have been “we’re forgetting the Jews”. glad Annie-Xmas took care of that. and young man staying at the Y? someone said that wasn’t deliberately gay? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/27 "2011-11-15T15:45:26Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Now wait: the French Revolution was definitely started by frumpy straight women, but by the time it evolved into the Napoleonic Wars, yes; it was high camp. QFT. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/28 "2011-11-15T15:47:26Z")
The Village People were a prefab group, the guys on stage were really just dancers. When Jacques Morali auditioned them, he didn’t check to make sure they were homosexual gentlemen before hiring them, but when you’re looking for dancers in New York, a lot of them are gonna be gay. > **[Village People](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_People)** > > Village People is an American disco group known for its on-stage costumes and suggestive lyrics in their music. The group was originally formed by French producers Jacques Morali, Henri Belolo and lead singer Victor Willis following the release of the debut album Village People, which targeted disco's large gay audience. The group's name refers to Manhattan's Greenwich Village, with its reputation as a gay neighborhood. The characters were a symbolic group of American masculinity and mac The g... ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/29 "2011-11-15T15:51:09Z")
> [@Stauderhorse](#): > > YMCA and the Village People in general. > > Regarding The Wizard of Oz, the gay community at the time really loved Judy Garland. In addition, the general plot of the movie can be seen as a parallel to the struggle of being gay in a world where that wasn’t accepted. Unhappy person living in a drab world searches for and finds a bright, colorful place where she can express herself = pretty much the gay dream at that point (and still is). But Dorothy spends the whole movie trying to get back to Kansas!!! ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/30 "2011-11-15T15:53:25Z")
> [@shiftless](#): > > I was surprised to see our whole childrens swim team, like 150 kids, singing and acting out _YMCA._ A very peppy tune and the kids love it but what adult thought this would be a good song for kids to sing? Even now, there are still little old ladies doing the YMCA dance at weddings and bar mitzvahs who never got the joke and still don’t. Heck, that’s nothing new. Liberace had millions of female fans who sincerely wondered why such a talented, charming man never met the right girl. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/31 "2011-11-15T15:57:51Z")
Come to think of it… how many straight teenagers who thought of themselves as macho embraced the whole leather scene because of Judas Priest? It’s weird, really. Back in 1982, if you wore a Duran Duran t-shirt to a Judas Priest show, the headbangers would have called you a fag and beaten you up… though we now know that Rob Halford is gay, while all the guys from Duran Duran are married to supermodels! ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/32 "2011-11-15T16:05:25Z")
YMCA could not get more mainstream than [Jesus](http://stupidevilbastard.com/2008/01/jesus_secretly_a_member_of_the_village_people/) ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/33 "2011-11-15T16:31:54Z")
OK, it turns out that “The Cop”, Victor Willis, was also the singer and one of the songwriters. So not all the guys on stage were just dancers. And he was also briefly married to Phylicia Rashad. He got married a second time later, again to a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/34 "2011-11-15T17:43:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Does “gay culture” encompass anything any gay artist does ever, or does it have more specific defining characteristics? A culture is a set of ideas, customs and experiences that helps to identify and characterize a group. Gay culture would be those things which are primarily popular within gay culture. Things that gay people would get that most straight people wouldn’t. i.e. the whole bandana in the back pocket thing from the 1970s. Simply having a gay lead singer (Queen) isn’t enough. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/35 "2011-11-15T17:46:54Z")
James Whale, director of the iconic Universal horror movies “Frankenstein” and “the Bride of Frankenstein” (among others) was openly gay in the 1930s, which was quite rare even amid Hollywood’s very loose standards. There is a long-standing debate about just how much his sexuality informed the above two movies - but it’s hard not to see that the films have a lot of empathy for a “freakish aberrration” (as Laura Schlessinger would’ve put it) and outcast from the community. According to the book “the Gay Metropolis”, The musical “West Side Story” was considered an epochal collaboration among gay men in the 1950s. It’s creators Sondheim, Bernstein, Laurents, Robbins were all gay or bi. The story of course isn’t explicitly about homosexuality, but does have a theme of “forbidden love” (Tony and Maria both defy their respective communities’ insularity by getting together) and “outsiderdom.” Both the stage musical and film were a spectacular mainstream hit, which gays of the 50s chuckled about as much as 80s gays chuckled over straight girls wearing “Frankie Goes to Hollywood” t-shirts. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/36 "2011-11-15T18:04:06Z")
> [@MostlyClueless](#): > > How’bout the band Queen? Freddy Mercury was about as queer as they get, and nobody gave a shit because of his pure, concentrated awesome. I was admittedly young during Queen’s '70s heyday, but it seemed to me at the time that people didn’t even _get_ that Freddie was gay, despite the almost overwhelming evidence when seen in hindsight. Singing songs about women (written by other band members) probably helped obscure the fact to the average schmoe, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/37 "2011-11-15T18:04:22Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > According to the book “the Gay Metropolis”, The musical “West Side Story” was considered an epochal collaboration among gay men in the 1950s. It’s creators Sondheim, Bernstein, Laurents, Robbins were all gay or bi. The story of course isn’t explicitly about homosexuality, but does have a theme of “forbidden love” (Tony and Maria both defy their respective communities’ insularity by getting together) and “outsiderdom.” Both the stage musical and film were a spectacular mainstream hit, which gays of the 50s chuckled about as much as 80s gays chuckled over straight girls wearing “Frankie Goes to Hollywood” t-shirts. So what you’re saying is that gay people in the 50s were really dumb? Because looking at West Side Story and seeing anything but “Romeo and Juliet With Choreographed Dancing” is very definition of looking for things you WANT to be there. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/38 "2011-11-15T18:20:27Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > OK, it turns out that “The Cop”, Victor Willis, was also the singer and one of the songwriters. So not all the guys on stage were just dancers. And he was also briefly married to Phylicia Rashad. He got married a second time later, again to a woman. I am good friends with the second cop Ray Simpson, his wife Leslie and their daughter. So mcuh for gay cops. > [@Don\_Draper](#): > > According to the book “the Gay Metropolis”, The musical “West Side Story” was considered an epochal collaboration among gay men in the 1950s. It’s creators Sondheim, Bernstein, Laurents, Robbins were all gay or bi. The story of course isn’t explicitly about homosexuality, but does have a theme of “forbidden love” (Tony and Maria both defy their respective communities’ insularity by getting together) and “outsiderdom.” Both the stage musical and film were a spectacular mainstream hit, which gays of the 50s chuckled about as much as 80s gays chuckled over straight girls wearing “Frankie Goes to Hollywood” t-shirts. > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > So what you’re saying is that gay people in the 50s were really dumb? Because looking at West Side Story and seeing anything but “Romeo and Juliet With Choreographed Dancing” is very definition of looking for things you WANT to be there. I’ve had the idea of turning West Side Story into a clash between a Christian sect a la Phelps and a gay rights group, with a guy from the former hooking up with a guy from the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/39 "2011-11-15T20:39:58Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > So what you’re saying is that gay people in the 50s were really dumb? Because looking at West Side Story and seeing anything but “Romeo and Juliet With Choreographed Dancing” is very definition of looking for things you WANT to be there. It can be more than one thing at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/40 "2011-11-15T21:14:57Z")
[QUOTE=voguevixen] Yup, I came of age in the “Left is right, right is wrong” era. Now everyone pierces everything as soon as possible. [/QUOTE] And most gays I know don’t pierce anything. It’s become passé . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989.md?page=3)