# When Gay Culture Goes Mainstream **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 15, 2011, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989 "2011-11-15T06:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/41 "2011-11-15T22:08:11Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Come to think of it… how many straight teenagers who thought of themselves as macho embraced the whole leather scene because of Judas Priest? > > It’s weird, really. Back in 1982, if you wore a Duran Duran t-shirt to a Judas Priest show, the headbangers would have called you a fag and beaten you up… though we now know that Rob Halford is gay, while all the guys from Duran Duran are married to supermodels! The whole conflation of chrome-studded black leather starting out gay but being introduced to metal fans via Priest and others is a HUGE example of gay culture being fully adopted by straights who had NO clue of its gay roots. Are you kidding?! If those metal kids knew back then…I don’t even wanna think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/42 "2011-11-15T22:11:44Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Virtually everything in our culture that had to be “created” can be traced back to either gays or blacks. The rest of you guys are just sheep. Except, of course, Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/43 "2011-11-15T22:15:58Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Tesla invented it, then the gays and blacks made is popular. Though it’s rumored Tesla was gay. > [@Slithy Tove](#): > > Now wait: the French Revolution was definitely started by frumpy straight women, but by the time it evolved into the Napoleonic Wars, yes; it was high camp. And Marie Antoinette was rumored to be gay; whatever buttered her croissant she was certainly a fag hag (all the dressmakers and hair stylists were among her best friends). So resolved: gays invented everything, QED. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/44 "2011-11-15T22:19:06Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > I was admittedly young during Queen’s '70s heyday, but it seemed to me at the time that people didn’t even _get_ that Freddie was gay, despite the almost overwhelming evidence when seen in hindsight. Singing songs about women (written by other band members) probably helped obscure the fact to the average schmoe, as well. Freddie Mercury seems to have had relationships with both men and women. No question that Queen did a lot of campy stuff and that most people at the time probably did not get what was going on with it. ---
**Author:** ![JessMagic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c0e974/32.png) [@JessMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JessMagic)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/45 "2011-11-16T02:19:31Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > **Disco** was, but I never heard that before about Rave. > > What exactly **was** Rave’s effect on UK culture? (Ya can’t hardly find Raves any more in the U.S., I’ve tried recently.) Hmmm - widespread use of ecstasy? As a musical genre, techno has taken over from rave. The concept is the same, though. Lots of people in a club, on drugs, dancing to repetitive beats. This happens in every city in the UK, every weekend. “Rave” is seen as a retro thing in the UK now. “Old Skool Rave” nights in clubs/bars are quite popular. The Criminal Justice Act 1994 pretty much killed the rave, by which I mean loads of people congregating in a field and getting their dance on. Although, I did go to a few illegal warehouse parties in Glasgow in the early to mid 2000s. They were fun, but tended to get broken up by the police at around 4am. So, to answer the OP: Techno Dance drugs, particularly ecstasy Men dancing with other men Men hugging other men ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/46 "2011-11-16T08:31:15Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Virtually everything in our culture that had to be “created” can be traced back to either gays or blacks. The rest of you guys are just sheep. Edison; Einstein; Jobs; Gates? The number of real inventions by gays and blacks isnt really more significant than their percentage of the population. ---
**Author:** ![ThirdCultureKid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbce88/32.png) [@ThirdCultureKid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThirdCultureKid)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/47 "2011-11-16T09:20:09Z")
What about Madonna’s ‘Vogue’ ? I don’t know if that constitues going ‘mainstream’ as such, but it certainly brought a practise from a gay subculture to wider attention. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/48 "2011-11-16T09:37:06Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > I was admittedly young during Queen’s '70s heyday, but it seemed to me at the time that people didn’t even _get_ that Freddie was gay, despite the almost overwhelming evidence when seen in hindsight. Singing songs about women (written by other band members) probably helped obscure the fact to the average schmoe, as well. I may be slightly older than you. The way I remember it, there were a lot of artists at the time that either pretended to be gay, or were gay, or bisexual. or possibly pretending to be bisexual, as part of their public image. David Bowie and Lou Reed are examples. Also androgyny was kind of in fashion; Marc Bolin and Bowie again played that up. Freddy Mercury’s image was in the same vein, especially since his band was named Queen (a pretty broad hint). The only question in peoples’ minds was whether he was really gay or was it just an act. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/49 "2011-11-16T09:42:23Z")
> [@JessMagic](#): > > Men hugging other men Sorry Man, that started during the Carter Administration. Even then, I believe it was a relic of Viet Nam soldiers consoling eachother. I’m likely to be wrong, but Ward Cleaver and even '70’s Mike Brady never hugged a Dude. ---
**Author:** ![Themenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ee59a6/32.png) [@Themenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Themenin)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/50 "2011-11-16T12:15:28Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > The whole conflation of chrome-studded black leather starting out gay but being introduced to metal fans via Priest and others is a HUGE example of gay culture being fully adopted by straights who had NO clue of its gay roots. Are you kidding?! If those metal kids knew back then…I don’t even wanna think about it. I think you’re overlooking biker culture which was already around the Metal scene well before Judas Priest - Of course dogs really invented the studded leather look 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/51 "2011-11-16T12:26:29Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Edison; Einstein; Jobs; Gates? The number of real inventions by gays and blacks isnt really more significant than their percentage of the population. With George Washington Carver you get a two-fer. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/52 "2011-11-16T13:01:01Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Now wait: the French Revolution was definitely started by frumpy straight women, but by the time it evolved into the Napoleonic Wars, yes; it was high camp. I’m not sure about that. I mean, male fashion before the Revolution was all about powdered wigs and knee britches; by Waterloo those were all gone, replaced by natural hair and trousers. I don’t know if the French Revolution was necessarily straight, but it was definitely butch. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/53 "2011-11-16T21:30:18Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > With George Washington Carver you get a two-fer. And he also represented for the eunuchs. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/54 "2011-11-16T21:36:48Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Edison; Einstein; Jobs; Gates? The number of real inventions by gays and blacks isnt really more significant than their percentage of the population. Edison, Einstein, Jobs and Gates were all latent homosexuals. I can prove this: I have pictures of all of them where they’re clearly not practicing. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/55 "2011-11-16T21:40:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Freddie Mercury seems to have had relationships with both men and women. That’s my understanding, as well. His Wikipedia article has three different cites for “Mercury was an acknowledged bisexual.” The article also references a male partner of his from the 1990s, but I recall reading about a girlfriend he had at one point during the 1970s. Regardless, Freddie defintely cultivated a flamboyant, fabulous public image. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2011, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/56 "2011-11-16T22:03:43Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > I may be slightly older than you. The way I remember it, there were a lot of artists at the time that either pretended to be gay, or were gay, or bisexual. or possibly pretending to be bisexual, as part of their public image. David Bowie and Lou Reed are examples. Mate, I’m pretty sure that Lou Reed was (and is) quite the genuine bisexual. I understand he renounced it sometime in the 1980s, but the man went through ECT in the 1960s because of his attraction to men and his lyrics (at least until the mid-1990s) are as replete with references to LGBTQ culture as anyone’s this side of Phranc. Rereading your post, I realize that you allow for this, but I really don’t think one should put Lou in the “pretending to be bi for PR” camp. The man walked the walk. ---
**Author:** ![JessMagic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c0e974/32.png) [@JessMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JessMagic)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/57 "2011-11-17T01:32:46Z")
> [@chacoguy](#): > > Sorry Man, that started during the Carter Administration. Even then, I believe it was a relic of Viet Nam soldiers consoling eachother. I’m likely to be wrong, but Ward Cleaver and even '70’s Mike Brady never hugged a Dude. So what you’re saying is, the intra-gender male hug existed **before** dance music? Fascinating. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/58 "2011-11-17T03:56:40Z")
So what _you’re_ saying is dance music didn’t exist before the Carter administration? You must not be all that gay. ---
**Author:** ![JessMagic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c0e974/32.png) [@JessMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JessMagic)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/59 "2011-11-17T06:14:28Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > So what _you’re_ saying is dance music didn’t exist before the Carter administration? You must not be all that gay. Er… yeah, sorry about that. I’m no expert on American presidents. Carter wasn’t the guy with the big hat, then? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2011, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989/60 "2011-11-17T06:22:12Z")
> [@JessMagic](#): > > Er… yeah, sorry about that. I’m no expert on American presidents. Carter wasn’t the guy with the big hat, then? You mean [Lincoln?](http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-1960-1969/1968-Lincoln-Continental-Mark-III.jpg) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-gay-culture-goes-mainstream/602989.md?page=4)