# When good adults believe bad science (share your stories) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 30, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738 "2005-12-30T16:52:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/221 "2006-01-06T00:06:33Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > No, I’m serious. How do you know they (the laws of physical science) would still operate if not one person had the slightest shred of belief in any of it? … I don’t think you’ve conducted this experiment, therefore I contend you have no right to say that. We can observe behavior of distant astronomical objects, and they pretty much follow the same laws of physics we derive from laboratory experiments. For example, supernova 1987A is over 160,000 light-years away. There was nobody around 160,000 years ago to believe in stellar evolution and supernova explosions. How did it explode following our understanding of astrophysics? Also, in science, the observation precedes the theory. Nobody believed in Relativity back when Michelson and Morley performed their famous [experiment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelson-Morley_experiment), but we can explain it now based on theories developed later. Same with many astronomical observations made before Newton - we can go back to it and it all fits. And often times the scientists don’t even want to believe what their data is telling them - even today, I don’t think most people really _want_ to believe in the Uncertainty Principle. It’s something we are forced to accept because that’s the only wan we can explain the observations. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/222 "2006-01-06T00:27:25Z")
> [@Knowed Out](#): > > Okay, I think it’s all hokum too. But a friend of mine demonstrated it for me, and then had me do it. He had wire coathangers straightened out, then bent them about 4 inches from the end to serve as handles. > > He walked across the yard, and the wires crossed when he walked over the waterline. I thought he was doing it on purpose. Then he had me do it. I held on to them loose enough for them to move, but I in no way attempted to control their movement in any other way. The fucking wires crossed. > > I went further down the yard. Water line’s still in the same place, but in a different area of the yard. The wires crossed again. I did this at least 5 times. I can honestly say I kept my hands as stiff as possible. The wires crossed on their own accord as if they were attracted to a magnet. > > I haven’t tried it again since then, so I can’t say it works everywhere and everytime, but it sure as hell worked then, despite all logic. Actually I recently saw a (related) debunking of these phenomena. It was done by Penn & Teller, with a ouija board. First they had some people in a supposedly haunted hotel in L.A. First they let their test subjects see the ouija board and ask some questions. Afterwards they blindfolded them and turned the board upside down. The interesting part is they kept getting “answers” (the pointer-thingy kept swinging around) to the places where THEY THOUGHT THE “RIGHT” ANSWERS were. In other words, there are apparently automotor functions in the brain that control the extremities even if the conscious mind thinks its doing its best to hold them still. The brain is truly amazing in its complexity. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/223 "2006-01-06T00:28:35Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > The laws of physical science are a description of observed phenomena. No, they’re not. Copernicus and Newton both described a world where the basic rules of how objects behave does not correspond to everyday experience. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/224 "2006-01-06T00:43:36Z")
> [@lisacurl](#): > > A FEMA inspector in New Orleans was paralyzed from a stray bullet fired into the air for New Year’s “celebrations” by people ignorant of this fact. Two people here in San Diego got hit by bullets fired into the air this year. > [@GorillaMan](#): > > No, they’re not. Copernicus and Newton both described a world where the basic rules of how objects behave does not correspond to everyday experience. Do you think they based their science on things they pulled out of their ass? How do you think the apple got there in the first place, anyway? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/225 "2006-01-06T00:50:11Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > We can observe behavior of distant astronomical objects, and they pretty much follow the same laws of physics we derive from laboratory experiments. For example, supernova 1987A is over 160,000 light-years away. There was nobody around 160,000 years ago to believe in stellar evolution and supernova explosions. How did it explode following our understanding of astrophysics? > > Also, in science, the observation precedes the theory. Nobody believed in Relativity back when Michelson and Morley performed their famous [experiment](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelson-Morley_experiment), but we can explain it now based on theories developed later. Same with many astronomical observations made before Newton - we can go back to it and it all fits. And often times the scientists don’t even want to believe what their data is telling them - even today, I don’t think most people really _want_ to believe in the Uncertainty Principle. It’s something we are forced to accept because that’s the only wan we can explain the observations. Another case where belief didn’t maintain an existing belief or change the natural laws is the long debate of Spontaneous Generation. It went over a century until Pasteur finally settled it ([http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio114/spontgen.htm](http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio114/spontgen.htm) or [http://www.accessexcellence.org/RC/AB/BC/Spontaneous\_Generation.html](http://www.accessexcellence.org/RC/AB/BC/Spontaneous_Generation.html)). ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/226 "2006-01-06T04:41:58Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > This is from the OP and I simply must contest it. How do you know planes don’t fly because we believe they can? > > Of course, you’re going to tell me they fly because of Bernoulli’s principle. But you _ **believe** _ in Bernoulli’s principle don’t you? > > I rest my case. No, we’re not going to tell you any such thing. Planes fly because the wing changes the momentum of air passing over it and a change in momentum results in a force. In this case the force is up. And you don’t have to believe it. You can stick a wing in a wind tunnel, blow air over it and measure the force. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/227 "2006-01-06T05:10:05Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > No, I’m serious. How do you know they (the laws of physical science) would still operate if not one person had the slightest shred of belief in any of it? > > I don’t think you’ve conducted this experiment, therefore I contend you have no right to say that. I’m not saying conclusively that they wouldn’t, but I’m saying you have no right to say conclusively that they would. Of course people believen in radioactivity before anyone knew such a thing existed. That’s how come that photographic film got fogged in Bequerel’s drawer. ---
**Author:** ![Tomcat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Tomcat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tomcat)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/228 "2006-01-06T09:38:49Z")
> [@DiggitCamara](#): > > Actually I recently saw a (related) debunking of these phenomena. It was done by Penn & Teller, with a ouija board. > > First they had some people in a supposedly haunted hotel in L.A. First they let their test subjects see the ouija board and ask some questions. Afterwards they blindfolded them and turned the board upside down. The interesting part is they kept getting “answers” (the pointer-thingy kept swinging around) to the places where THEY THOUGHT THE “RIGHT” ANSWERS were. > > In other words, there are apparently automotor functions in the brain that control the extremities even if the conscious mind thinks its doing its best to hold them still. The brain is truly amazing in its complexity. Here’s a try-at-home experiment: Take a piece of paper, about 7 inches to a side, and put the numbers 1-4 in the corners, with an X in the middle, sorta like this: 1 3 ``` X ``` 4 2 Take a piece of string (about 1 foot long) and tie a weight to the end (a washer, a pen cap, a few paperclips, whatever). Hold the string in between your two middle finger-tips and place your elbows on either side of the paper so that the string is hangin directly over the X. Now start chanting “One, two…One, two…one, two…” after about 20 seconds you should see the end of the string swing back and forth between the numbers 1 and 2. Then start chanting “Three, four…three, four…three, four…” and the string will slow down, change direction, and then speed up going between 3 and 4. You won’t conciously feel or even see your fingertips or arms moving the string, but it will slowly start to swing that way. -Tcat ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/229 "2006-01-06T16:27:46Z")
**Stranger** , I considered everything you mentioned, that it could be a subconsciously suggestive thing. I can honestly say I concentrated on keeping my hands as stiff as possible and did my best to keep my balance. Even if I somehow crossed the wires without intending to, I think it would have looked clumsy, as the wires would still be flopping around as I tried to steady them. Even if I used my thumbs to steady them, which I didn’t, there would still have been unsteadiness. This wasn’t the case. They snapped like they were attracted to the spot and stayed still afterwards. Like I said, I haven’t tried to experiment in another place, so I can’t honestly say that dowsing works. But that day it did ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/230 "2006-01-06T17:27:00Z")
People will believe the damndest things. My father was a barber and back in the paleolithic era barbers gave shampoos. Dad used Fitch’s Dandruff Remover Shampoo[sup]1[/sup] and when he picked up the bottle to give one guy a shampoo the guy recoiled in horror. “Don’t use that, it’s got dandruff eggs in it.” [sup]1[/sup]Don’t despair Use you head save your hair Use Fitch Shampoo ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/231 "2006-01-06T17:46:16Z")
> [@Knowed Out](#): > > Like I said, I haven’t tried to experiment in another place, so I can’t honestly say that dowsing works. But that day it did It ain’t science if it isn’t reproducible under different conditions. And the point is, even when you are consciously trying to be honest and objective, your preconceptions and expectations will color both your actions and perceptions. If you tried this in a few different locations and got a consistent positive result, I’d say you have something. I’d also say you need to sell your services to the highest bidder. I strongly suspect, though, that you’ll find your accuracy to be rather less than reliable. Haven’t Penn & Teller done a show on water witching? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Crandolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7cd45c/32.png) [@Crandolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crandolph)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/232 "2006-01-06T17:57:43Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I forgot to mention, he demonstrates that water spins clockwise in the north and counter in the south. Not only is it a sham, but he gets it backwards! Geez I had this argument with the headmaster of a private boarding school (!!! :smack: ) in Illinois once. He had been to equitorial Africa, some scammer charged him a buck to see the ‘experiment’ and no one could make him “unlearn” it now. We had been hired by the school to do a geography program and I couldn’t argue the point as strenuously as I would’ve liked in front of others as he was getting anrgy that the guy brought in to teach geography for 3 days was contradicting him and we were just contracted to come in and do our program. Later I emailed him a link on the topic from Penn State’s “bad physics” debunking pages and I never did hear from him again… ---
**Author:** ![Giant\_Spongess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/94ad74/32.png) [@Giant\_Spongess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giant_Spongess)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/233 "2006-01-06T19:17:25Z")
I can’t believe nobody’s dragged out the tired old myth of deoxygenated blood being blue. So many people still believe this it’s ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![cbawlmer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cbawlmer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cbawlmer)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/234 "2006-01-06T19:40:55Z")
> [@Giant\_Spongess](#): > > I can’t believe nobody’s dragged out the tired old myth of deoxygenated blood being blue. So many people still believe this it’s ridiculous. But–but that’s what they taught us in school! So it’s not true? And veins are just blue? Sadly, a good number of the “bad science” examples mentioned in this thread were taught to us in school, and I’ve mentioned several to my husband who also believed them to be true, even though we went to different schools. Of course, I went to a high school with science classes that taught evolution was evil and the world was between 6,000-10,000 years old, and I had to write a paper on why creationism was true and evolution was false as my senior-year research paper in _English_ class! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/235 "2006-01-06T20:41:01Z")
> [@Knowed Out](#): > > **Stranger** , I considered everything you mentioned, that it could be a subconsciously suggestive thing. I can honestly say I concentrated on keeping my hands as stiff as possible and did my best to keep my balance. Conscious concentration does not control subconscious micromotor control, which is the standard explanation of how dousing works. At any rate, consider this: If it works, it is either caused by a) the rods, or b) your brain. Let’s ignore a) for now, and consider b). That means that somehow or other your brain sensed that water was nearby. Whether dousing is “real” or not, the action of the rods is something your brain controls. So let’s take that as a given. The magic of dousing is all in your head. The question becomes this, then: How does your brain know that water is nearby? Is it possible that water molecules are calling to your cerebral cortex in a cosmic vortex of the ninth dimension of love? Sure. Is it also possible that your brain knew where the water was because your friend _told you_ where it was? Not only possible, but to me, that’s far more likely to be the explanation. If you’d rather go with explanation a) then I have to ask what sort of sympathetic magic resides in a bent coat hanger, and if such hangers cost more than the normal, non-magic kind. ---
**Author:** ![Jenny\_Haniver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Jenny\_Haniver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenny_Haniver)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/236 "2006-01-06T20:48:59Z")
My grandmother is scared of falling asleep with my mom’s cat in the room - she says if the cat sees she’s asleep it will jump onto her chest and suck out all her breath. ---
**Author:** ![Cub\_Mistress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/237 "2006-01-06T21:42:23Z")
One of my brothers-in-law once told me the North Star is what holds the earth “up” (otherwise it would fall over on its side.) ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/238 "2006-01-06T23:12:26Z")
Remember this grand old “wisdom”? It’s a well known “fact” we only use 10% of our brain… we have a 90% “overhead” we still haven’t used… So, please people, let’s get cracking! I want to see a new thread, explaining how to use the surplus 80% ASAP! ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/239 "2006-01-06T23:32:48Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > No, they’re not. Copernicus and Newton both described a world where the basic rules of how objects behave does not correspond to everyday experience. Perhaps you could enlighten us on how the popular notion that Copernicus and Newton derived some of their basic rules through observation of the planets (which, while not daily, are a nightly experience) is incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738/240 "2006-01-06T23:42:19Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > Perhaps you could enlighten us on how the popular notion that Copernicus and Newton derived some of their basic rules through observation of the planets (which, while not daily, are a nightly experience) is incorrect? Notice that I said ‘everyday experience’. Everyday experience shows the sun rising in the sky, progressing through the sky, and setting on the other side of the earth. Everyday experience tells us that if we push something, no matter if it’s sliding, gliding or rolling, it will come to a stop without external interference. The conclusion we could draw from these observations is that the sun moves around the earth, and that every object has a natural state of rest. Telling people that what they see is not the _whole_ of reality is the difficulty faced by scientists. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-good-adults-believe-bad-science-share-your-stories/337738.md?page=13)