# When has a rapist been a sympathetic character? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 7, 2007, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872 "2007-07-07T17:01:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/221 "2014-03-25T13:59:57Z")
The Gor novels could be considered to have a long string of rapists as main characters since the slavery is nonconsensual and the owners can have sex with their slavegirls at will. The slavegirls all love being slaves, so it’s kind of a romantic fantasy sex slavery mixed with what is supposedly real sex slavery. Thinking about it, the same can be said of many romance novels, not to mention erotic romances. I can’t speak for the romance novels, but erotic romances have stories about women who become sex slaves but just happen to wind up owned by this WONDERFUL guy … ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/222 "2014-03-25T14:03:54Z")
Evan Hunter’s novel Last Summer ends with a rape scene by the main characters, and it’s treated like “Boys Will Be Boys.” He later wrote a sequel “Come Winter” where five years later, the boys (now young men) are punished for their sins. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/223 "2014-03-25T14:35:22Z")
In the first ROCKY movie you might say Rocky rapes Adrian. But somehow this makes her fall in love with him and come out of her shell. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/224 "2014-03-25T15:01:49Z")
In one of Fritz Lieber’s short stories about Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser (I think _The Sadness of the Executioner_), Mouser rapes a woman who Death magicks into his bedroom to kill him. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/225 "2014-03-25T15:14:08Z")
I know I mentioned another character in this thread some pages ago, but one that I thought now (and searching this thread I cannot find), is Lestat. In one of the Interview with the Vampire series (I think the fourth one, maaaybe the third one?), Lestat is able to change bodies (if even for a short while), and becomes “human”. In this human form, he befriends a waitress (not sure if he is also injured), and eventually rapes her. He realizes later what he has done, and I think at the end of the novel, back in vampire form, he goes back to the waitress to try and make amends (and probably verify she is not pregnant?). ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/226 "2014-03-25T15:23:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > In one of Fritz Lieber’s short stories about Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser (I think _The Sadness of the Executioner_), Mouser rapes a woman who Death magicks into his bedroom to kill him. > > Regards, > Shodan Good catch. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/227 "2014-03-25T15:37:57Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > There no evidence to indicate that marriage was ever an issue so that’s implying facts not presented in the narrative. Not correct. In _Crystal Skull_, when Jones expresses disdain over Marion’s marriage to Colin Williams, Marion says: “I think you gave up your vote on who I married when you decided to break it off a week before the wedding!” > [@](#): > > Women have historically been extremely upset when they were used and dumped by men. That’s not a “contemporary” mindset as that narrative has been played out throughout history. And Marian referred to **herself** as being “a child”; Jones didn’t nor did it seem to matter to him as he expressed very little guilt over his actions. **She** obviously felt betrayed by his actions, consensual or not Sure. I don’t dispute the claim that she was extremely upset and felt betrayed. > [@](#): > > Sorry, but having sex with an underaged woman is viewed as being rape in many cultures (although perhaps not yours). The film downplays the matter as acknowledging it would turn Jones from a “hero” into an anti-hero at best. > > We’ll just have to disagree about your viewing of the matter. Except that what “under age” is varies, sometimes dramatically. There’s nothing magical about age 18. At present, some state laws say that 17 is the legal age to consent. Others say 16. I’m perfectly comfortable accepting that a person is a rapist if their conduct violates the law at the place and time the act is completed. I am not remotely persuaded that you’ve shown any canonical support for the claim that this describes Indiana Jones. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/228 "2014-03-25T17:11:01Z")
Did anyone mention The Comedian in Watchmen? Not completely sympathetic of course, but there are overtones from various people because…let’s face it…life is complicated. edit: and of course there’s Yellowbeard, my go to guy (Besides Blazing Saddles) when people say “No rape joke in the history of the planet has ever been anything less than an abomination.” ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/229 "2014-03-25T17:50:47Z")
Yes, Watchmen’s message is that life is complicated, but it in no way encourages you to have sympathy for the Comedian. Not the way I see it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/230 "2014-03-25T18:09:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Not sure I agree with this confident conclusion. > > We don’t know how much older Jones was at the time. Certainly Marion says that she was a “child,” but she’s obviously angry and not prone to characterize things charitably towards Jones. If they were separated by ten years, we could imagine Marion was 17 and Jones 27 when their relationship occurred. That would not be statutory rape today, and certainly not in the 1930s in Illinois, which is presumably where the affair happened, since we learn at the beginning of the movie that Abner was at the University of Chicago when Jones studied under his tutelage. > > Neither character’s age is directly revealed, of course, but Karen Allen is only nine years younger than Harrison Ford, so my supposition is certainly defensible. > > Of course, your theory might be correct also. I just don’t agree that the canonical information mandates your conclusion. > > ETA: having written that whole post, I now re-read what you wrote and see you meant the novelization of the movie. > > Not having read the novel, I would ask what specific ages, if any, are the two when this assignation occurred? In the [original version](http://www.cracked.com/article_18985_5-insane-early-drafts-famous-movie-characters.html) of the story, Marion was supposed to have been twelve when Indiana first had sex with her. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/231 "2014-03-25T18:10:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > In the [original version](http://www.cracked.com/article_18985_5-insane-early-drafts-famous-movie-characters.html) of the story, Marion was supposed to have been twelve when Indiana first had sex with her. So what? That’s not the version that made it on screen, so that’s not the version that counts. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/232 "2014-03-25T18:14:50Z")
The protagonist of Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle’s novel, [The Burning City](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Burning_City), an allegory about the [1992 L.A. Riots](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots), participates in a gang rape during one of the periodic “Burnings” of the city. He reforms but never atones for the crime. The setting is the same as other stories in Niven’s “[The Magic Goes Away](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magic_Goes_Away)” series. I like the setting quite a bit, but don’t really care for the novel. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/233 "2014-03-25T18:34:05Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yes, Watchmen’s message is that life is complicated, but it in no way encourages you to have sympathy for the Comedian. Not the way I see it. Encourage? no. But his funeral is attended. And Whassername kisses his picture at the end doesn’t she? And I could argue that Watchmen does encourage you to pity The Comedian. Pity and sympathy are damn close. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/234 "2014-03-25T18:48:48Z")
Seth Rogen’s lead character in “Observe & Report” bangs the girl in that when she’s pretty drunk (and he’s sober) and it caused quite a bit of controversy when it came out. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/235 "2014-03-25T19:20:13Z")
Jeez, it’s a shame nobody in this thread thought to mention Thomas Covenant yet. Just kidding! Stop throwing things!!! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/236 "2014-03-25T19:24:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > In the [original version](http://www.cracked.com/article_18985_5-insane-early-drafts-famous-movie-characters.html) of the story, Marion was supposed to have been twelve when Indiana first had sex with her. Yes, and in a fan fiction story I read, Harry Potter and Draco Malfoy had a romantic and sexual relationship. So in that version of the Harry Potter story, Harry’s gay. But not in the actual, canonical Harry Potter universe. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/237 "2014-03-25T19:27:32Z")
It’s been nearly 30 years since I’ve seen the movie _Trouble in Mind_, but my recollection is that Kris Kristofferson’s character forces himself on Genevieve Bujold’s character early on. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/238 "2014-03-25T19:30:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > In the [original version](http://www.cracked.com/article_18985_5-insane-early-drafts-famous-movie-characters.html) of the story, Marion was supposed to have been twelve when Indiana first had sex with her. I’m also skeptical about the truth of that claim. I find a couple of different mentions on the Internet, but all see to go back to the same source [cracked.com](http://cracked.com) has: a [ramascreen.com](http://ramascreen.com) page which no longer exists. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/239 "2014-03-25T19:37:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m also skeptical about the truth of that claim. I find a couple of different mentions on the Internet, but all see to go back to the same source [cracked.com](http://cracked.com) has: a [ramascreen.com](http://ramascreen.com) page which no longer exists. Update: I find a current site that hosts a PDF that purports to be a transcript of a tape of a story conference: > **[raidersstoryconference1978.pdf](https://maddogmovies.com/almost/scripts/raidersstoryconference1978.pdf)** > > 251.02 KB ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/240 "2014-03-25T19:55:41Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > In one of Fritz Lieber’s short stories about Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser (I think _The Sadness of the Executioner_), Mouser rapes a woman who Death magicks into his bedroom to kill him. > > Regards, > Shodan Mouser’s penchant for underage girls is referred to a number of times. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872.md?page=13)