# When has a rapist been a sympathetic character? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 7, 2007, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872 "2007-07-07T17:01:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/41 "2007-07-07T23:43:28Z")
I don’t know how “sympathetic” he is, but most readers have a perverse fondness and admiration for that appalling bastard Harry Flashman. His vileness has been toned down over the course of the books {rather regrettably, in my view: in the latest, _Flashman On The March_, he’s little more than a genially unscrupulous womaniser with a casual attitude towards his duty}, but in the original _Flashman_, he rapes a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/42 "2007-07-07T23:46:05Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] So I never read the Thomas Covenant books. I’d always heard of him as an “unsympathetic character” but everything I read about him made me think he was just ugly and grouchy. This is the first I’ve heard that he’s a rapist. What’s the story there? Is it something that happens during the course of the novels? Or is it something from his past? Or what? -FrL- [/QUOTE] Its from early in the first book, its not a flashback. I seem to remember (its been a very long time since I read it, so i could be wrong) that he’s under the impression that the woman he rapes is a hallucination, so there is something of a mitigating factor. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/43 "2007-07-07T23:49:30Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] So I never read the Thomas Covenant books… What’s the story there? Is it something that happens during the course of the novels? Or is it something from his past? Or what? [/QUOTE] I’m not going to spoil it for you. Suffice it to say that the rape, the reasons for the rape, and the consequences of the rape are worked into the plot very well. ETA: Beaten to it! ---
**Author:** ![denquixote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@denquixote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/denquixote)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/44 "2007-07-07T23:56:02Z")
Blume (George Segal) rapes his ex-wife i(Susan Anspach) n “Blume in Love.” ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/45 "2007-07-08T00:07:49Z")
John Leguizamo’s character in [Casualties of War](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097027/) is treated _somewhat_ sympathetically. He caves in to peer pressure and participates, reluctantly, in a gang rape. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/46 "2007-07-08T00:18:41Z")
Hmmm, people have already picked my two – Flashman and Thomas Covenant. English folksongs are pretty full of that kind of thing, so how about [Tam Lin?](http://www.tam-lin.org/versions/steel.html). “He’s taken her by the milk-white hand And there he’s laid her down And there he asked no leave of her As she lay on the ground.” But as it turns out, Tam Lin has been enchanted by faeries (which may or may not account for his cavalier treatment of the lady) and is doomed to be given a a tithe to hell. So for his love, the (former) maiden waits at Miles Cross and wins him back from the Queen of the Faeries. ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/47 "2007-07-08T00:48:54Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] Luke Spencer- GENERAL HOSPITAL Todd ???- ONE LIFE TO LIVE Rapists who become sympathetic leading men are a definite Soap Opera meme. [/QUOTE] I came in here specifically to mention Luke. I wish I could see that episode again…when I watched it when it aired originally, I never interpreted it as a rape, and I wish I could see it again to remember how it all went. I remember Laura being pissed with Scotty, and flirting with Luke, and Luke being in love with her. I thought at the time..well, to be honest, I can’t remember what I thought about it all, 30 years ago…but it seemed to me at the time that Laura had a lot to answer for in what transpired. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/48 "2007-07-08T00:57:01Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] So I never read the Thomas Covenant books. I’d always heard of him as an “unsympathetic character” but everything I read about him made me think he was just ugly and grouchy. This is the first I’ve heard that he’s a rapist. What’s the story there? Is it something that happens during the course of the novels? Or is it something from his past? Or what? -FrL- [/QUOTE] Thomas Covenant is a leper, one of the side effects of which is impotence. One day he gets hit by a car and wakes up in The Land, a magical realm where his leprosy is cured. He’s convinced that he’s in a coma and is having an extended dulsion. He gets aroused by a woman for the first time in years, and thinks, “What the hell, none of this is real, so I might as well enjoy myself.” Turns out, The Land is a lot realer than he’d given it credit for. Since he keeps jumping in and out of this alternate world, and time moves faster ther than it does here, he later meets the adult daughter his rape engendered, who holds a position of power in the governance of that world. ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/49 "2007-07-08T01:01:21Z")
Ah, amazing…the power of YouTube. Okay, my brain definitely edited [that](http://youtube.com/watch?v=x_wQJfwH_uA), probably due to all the stuff that happened afterwards…Gosh, they were all young and cute back then… ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/50 "2007-07-08T01:05:31Z")
Sean Connery’s character, Mark Rutland, pretty much rapes Tippi Hedren’s Marnie in the film by the same name. This is on their honeymoon after he blackmails her into marrying him in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/51 "2007-07-08T01:31:30Z")
Ooh, that reminds me. The canonical hero/good guy, D’Artagnan, pretty much rapes Milady in The Three Musketeers. (She spurns him, so he disguises himself as her lover and plows her in the dark.) Definitely a shabby thing to do, but Dumas puts it in a favorable light – just another feat of derring do by our boy hero. ---
**Author:** ![MissGypsy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@MissGypsy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissGypsy)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/52 "2007-07-08T02:40:29Z")
This is some obscure fiction, but in this novel, _Easy Connections_, by Liz Berry, a rapist comes off as a hero. The book is intended for teen females, which always struck me as a little odd. Some 20-something rock star rapes a 17-year-old girl, thereby getting her pregnant, and then stalks and harasses her until she agrees to give up her college and her career and marry him. There was even a sequel, which apparently chronicles what happens after the victim marries the rapist, but I’ve not read it. The first was quite disturbing enough, more so because teen girls seemed to find it wildly romantic. [http://www.lizberrybooks.com/id24.htm](http://www.lizberrybooks.com/id24.htm) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/53 "2007-07-08T04:07:08Z")
[QUOTE=Finagle] Ooh, that reminds me. The canonical hero/good guy, D’Artagnan, pretty much rapes Milady in The Three Musketeers. (She spurns him, so he disguises himself as her lover and plows her in the dark.) Definitely a shabby thing to do, but Dumas puts it in a favorable light – just another feat of derring do by our boy hero. [/QUOTE] If we are using “flying under false colors” as a definition, then Louis from [Revenge of the Nerds](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088000/) counts. He nails Betty while passing himself off as her boyfriend in disguise. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/54 "2007-07-08T04:12:40Z")
Tom Ripley? He kills often enough, I can’t recall if he also rapes. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/55 "2007-07-08T04:29:08Z")
The Guy that rapes Starr in _Preacher_. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/56 "2007-07-08T04:38:29Z")
Regarding Luke Spencer from General Hospital: I also saw the original rape scene, but remember it a little vaguely. There is a song called “_Rise_” that I refer to as Luke and Laura’s Rape Theme. The show did get lots of letters of complaint when the two of them fell in love after the rape. They were about the hottest couple on television twenty years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/57 "2007-07-08T04:42:39Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] If we are using “flying under false colors” as a definition, then Louis from [Revenge of the Nerds](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088000/) counts. He nails Betty while passing himself off as her boyfriend in disguise. [/QUOTE] Well, he performs oral sex on her (and apparantly rather skillfully), rather than conventional “nailing” intercourse. ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/58 "2007-07-08T05:17:48Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] If we are using “flying under false colors” as a definition, then Louis from [Revenge of the Nerds](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088000/) counts. He nails Betty while passing himself off as her boyfriend in disguise. [/QUOTE] Same with Uther Pendragon raping, err, Arthur’s mother, wassname, after Merlin disguised Uther as the woman’s husband. But Uther really wasn’t sympathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/59 "2007-07-08T05:22:28Z")
Does Valmont count in Dangerous Liasons (and any other film version of it)? It’s a bit difficult to portray it as a straight rape, especially as it’s depicted very ambiguously in the book. ETA: I’m referring of course to the seduction of little Cecile. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2007, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872/60 "2007-07-08T06:04:17Z")
Edward Hyde in _The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen_ forcibly buggers Hawley Griffin, The Invisible Man, to death in retribution both for Griffin’s treachery with the Martians and his beating and rape of Mina Harker: Hyde then goes on to heroically sacrifice himself by destroying one of the Martian war machines and eating the occupants, getting himself incinerated in the process. Sadly, none of these proceedings made it into the movie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-a-rapist-been-a-sympathetic-character/410872.md?page=4)