# When has Flanderization made a character/series unejoyable to you? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** actor-characters\ **Created:** [December 30, 2022, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312 "2022-12-30T00:27:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/21 "2022-12-30T14:48:36Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > As the show went on he turned into a mystical man child who couldn’t have anything stronger than grape soda. Yeah, that was a tragic mistake on the writers’ part. His origin from the book/movie was so good, too! ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/22 "2022-12-30T16:13:47Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > another show was psych…i missed the first season so I never learned why he had to pretend to be psychic in the first place > [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > The explanation was that his father had trained him from childhood to be the greatest detective in the world, but when he tried to get a job, he discovered that the only way to become a police detective is to spend years as a patrolman/constable, which he had no interest in at all. The initial kick was that he kept calling in police tips for the reward based on the information he could just gleam seeing it on TV. They ended up suspecting him of committing the crimes because of the details he knew, so he said he found them out because he was a psychic. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > As the seasons went on, he became more and more nothing but irrational quirks. In the first season, he could use a cell phone, a remote control, he even smiled. By the end, he could do none of them, and **people said he never could**. It got really annoying, even though there were still good episodes at the end [Bolding mine] That was my biggest issue. I think in the very first episode Stottlemeyer talked about how before Trudy died Monk was a fairly normal guy who just liked things neat and organized. But later on in the show the would have flashbacks of Monk showing him being a weirdo even as a kid. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/23 "2022-12-30T17:08:23Z")
Baldrick in Blackadder (and his stupidity) definitely counts. It’s a bit of a weird case as the characters all change between the first and second season (with Blackadder getting cleverer and more cunning and Baldrick getting dumber) But even between Blackadder II and Blackadder goes Forth, the number of dumb jokes about Baldrick being dumb increases. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/24 "2022-12-30T17:21:59Z")
It’s really its own category, but Hawkeye becomes such a “caring asshole” in the latter half of MASH. He always had a bit of “care” in him, but he was mainly the lead asshole. After Alan Alda got control of the character he became unwatchable. I sorta disagree with **griffin1977** - Baldrick getting dumber and dumber was on purpose, not because the writers got lazy. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/25 "2022-12-30T17:29:15Z")
That one at least can be chalked up to the various Baldricks and Blackadders being different characters. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/26 "2022-12-30T17:41:10Z")
> [@Tzigone](#): > > > [@nightshadea](#): > > > > The biggest example is when the “schtick” is the point of the show … I mean in the last episode > > I’d quit watching long before that, so I have no idea what you’re talking about. But it kinda makes me happy I quit watching. > > Still watching Columbo, for the moment. Plus, it doesn’t take the same investment or result in the same caring (to me) when binge watching. That’s too bad. I think it was one of the better series wrap ups that has been done. > **Summary** > > He discovers something that allows him to solve Trudy’s murder. This resolution lets him heal enough to come back to the police department. He is still Monk. He is still quirky and weird but he is able to function in society. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/27 "2022-12-30T17:42:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@nightshadea](#): > > > > but yeah there were times I wanted to scream at monk " get over it and yourself" > > Monk started out as a Mystery show, with a genius detective with a quirk. As it went on, it became a comedy, about a quirky guy who also solved mysteries. > > I did not care for the change. Monk was funny from day one. They leaned into it more later but it was never a straight mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/28 "2022-12-30T17:53:17Z")
I think I’ve reached this point with the newest season of Letterkenney. The characters have always had various quirks that helped define them, but in this season, they seem to be nothing but their quirks. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/29 "2022-12-30T19:39:12Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Flanderization usually happens only in sitcoms,except for Monk, as mentioned. > > As the seasons went on, he became more and more nothing but irrational quirks. In the first season, he could use a cell phone, a remote control, he even smiled. By the end, he could do none of them, and people said he never could. It got really annoying, even though there were still good episodes at the end I disagree with the last line, but I kinda gave up on the show around then, so… > [@Loach](#): > > Monk was funny from day one. They leaned into it more later but it was never a straight mystery. Sure, a lot of Mystery shows have some humor in them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/30 "2022-12-30T20:04:11Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > It’s one of those terms that an early user of TV Tropes completely made up on their own based on their own knowledge and prejudices. Names like that are usually changed these days to be more user friendly, but this one became so entrenched over the years that no one wants to touch it out of tradition. They did change Spikeification to Badass Decay (kind of quasi-parallel to Flanderization, where formerly prominent character loses a former definiing trait). ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/31 "2022-12-30T20:22:19Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > > > Flanderization usually happens only in sitcoms,except for Monk, as mentioned. > > > > As the seasons went on, he became more and more nothing but irrational quirks. In the first season, he could use a cell phone, a remote control, he even smiled. By the end, he could do none of them, and people said he never could. It got really annoying, even though there were still good episodes at the end > > I disagree with the last line, but I kinda gave up on the show around then, so… > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > Monk was funny from day one. They leaned into it more later but it was never a straight mystery. > > Sure, a lot of Mystery shows have some humor in them. I think you are remembering it wrong. The creator and main writer of the show is a comedy writer. The murder was always central to the plot but the comedy was always there. It was always a hell of a lot more than “some humor.” ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/32 "2022-12-31T04:02:01Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Baldrick in Blackadder (and his stupidity) definitely counts. I feel a little like Baldrick every morning. Each day I feel a little stupider than I did the day before, but I’m too stupid to realize it. Thank God I don’t drink Coffee. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/33 "2022-12-31T05:04:45Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Each day I feel a little stupider than I did the day before… Oh, my god, we’re Flanderizing ourselves! I know I am. After a year or two of hermiting, I’m definitely more quirky (because my “normie” traits are out of practice). ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/34 "2022-12-31T10:52:51Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I sorta disagree with **griffin1977** - Baldrick getting dumber and dumber was on purpose, not because the writers got lazy I had always thought each subsequent Baldrick was a descendent of his predecessor. So I just put his continued dumbing down down to faded genes. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/35 "2022-12-31T13:48:31Z")
I think these kind of changes are almost always inevitable when a sitcom runs a long time. You start to run out of stories, the veteran writers move on to other shows and are replaced by newer, less experienced writers whose primary influence is the earlier seasons of the show, broader characters become easier to write for, also sometimes the audience latches onto it so the writers play it up. I am not sure any show that has lasted more than a few seasons hasn’t gone through this to one degree or another. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/36 "2022-12-31T14:06:41Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > > [@silenus](#): > > > > I sorta disagree with **griffin1977** - Baldrick getting dumber and dumber was on purpose, not because the writers got lazy > > I had always thought each subsequent Baldrick was a descendent of his predecessor. So I just put his continued dumbing down down to faded genes. At the end of season 4 Baldrick had a cunning and subtle plan. A plan as cunning as a fox who’s just been appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University. Unfortunately we didn’t get to hear the plan but that does imply he wasn’t too dumb. ---
**Author:** ![XOldiesJock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ec9cab/32.png) [@XOldiesJock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XOldiesJock)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/37 "2022-12-31T14:17:11Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > _Radar on MASH_. Absolutely. At the start of the series, he was played much as the character was played in the movie. He was a smart guy who knew how to get things done amid all the chaos, often using a bit of chicanery to do so. As time went by, the writers morphed his character into what you correctly called a “man child” who drank Grape Nehi and slept with a teddy bear. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/38 "2022-12-31T16:16:57Z")
> [@XOldiesJock](#): > > Absolutely. At the start of the series, he was played much as the character was played in the movie. He was a smart guy who knew how to get things done amid all the chaos, often using a bit of chicanery to do so. As time went by, the writers morphed his character into what you correctly called a “man child” who drank Grape Nehi and slept with a teddy bear. According to Burghoff, that was his idea, and he loved how it played out. [https://web.archive.org/web/20140415073732/http://kenlevine.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/gary-burghoff-explains-radar.html](https://web.archive.org/web/20140415073732/http://kenlevine.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/gary-burghoff-explains-radar.html) ---
**Author:** ![XOldiesJock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ec9cab/32.png) [@XOldiesJock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XOldiesJock)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/39 "2022-12-31T19:59:40Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > _According to Burghoff, that was his idea, and he loved how it played out._ Thanks for that link! Interesting that it was his idea to soften the character. I still think they took it a little too far, but that’s just my opinion. Most of the characters from the movie were somewhat TV-ized, in that they were not as cynical, cruel and crazy as they were depicted in the movie, because characters like that would never have flown on TV of the 1970s and 80s. My opinion of **MASH** in general was always colored by my reaction to the movie, which I saw when it was first released. I thought the movie was hilarious, but as a comedy, it’s very dark and cruel. Most people I know who love the TV series have either never seen the movie or hated it when they did. The series was one of the best ever to grace the home screen. It’s timeless. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2022, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312/40 "2022-12-31T20:10:05Z")
I agree. Not only did they change the overall tone to something more suited to a laugh track, but over time it really became more and more the Hawkeye Pierce Show. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-flanderization-made-a-character-series-unejoyable-to-you/977312.md?page=3)