# When has strategy/tactics defeated a vastly “superior” enemy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 25, 2004, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634 "2004-11-25T14:45:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LoganF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9fc29f/32.png) [@LoganF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LoganF)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/1 "2004-11-25T14:45:27Z")
What are the most striking examples of strategic or tactical genius when it comes to overcoming the odds and beating a “superior” foe? The examples you use can come from a variety of different sources. For example, the military, financial & corporate, sports, love rivalry (famous and well-documented) and political. The strength of the foe must be stated. If I was to use the military as an example, I would probably go for the Russian invasion of Finland (this is not very useful – but I can’t think of a better one at the moment. Finland didn’t actually win the war, but Russia’s was a pyrrhic victory). Though vastly outnumbered and outgunned, the Finns produced many successes using an intelligent combination of guerrilla tactics and the snow. You might think tactics in love rivalries an odd one to include. But can you think of any famous examples? Say suitor A is extremely ugly and poor but managed to manoeuvre himself into Princess P’s bed despite the courting of handsome suitor B. That sort of thing. When considering the “superiority” of the foe, there are a number of things to bear in mind. Greater numbers (of troops), better funding, more advanced technology – remember superiority is not always quantifiable. Try to include examples where the victories are based _solely_ on the brilliance of the tactics used by the “weaker” participant. So for example lets say Bill Gates & Microsoft steamrolled Apple Mac. To what extent was this a result of pure luck and how much was due to Billy’s awesome business tactics? Anyways you getz de ideazzzz. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/2 "2004-11-25T14:50:32Z")
Forgive me for asking but is this a term paper or something? The language and conditions certainly reads like it. ---
**Author:** ![Satyagrahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Satyagrahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satyagrahi)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/3 "2004-11-25T15:23:57Z")
Indeed, the use of SDMB for homework cribbing is discouraged. That said, I’ll give you a hint: look up the battle of Gaugamela, a prime example. I hope you get a good grade. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/4 "2004-11-25T15:55:52Z")
How about the American Revolutionary War? Look it up… it happend around 1776 or so… ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/5 "2004-11-25T15:58:02Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > How about the American Revolutionary War? Look it up… it happend around 1776 or so… Or Vietnam. Or if you can hold off for a year or so, Iraq. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji_Kitakyusho)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/6 "2004-11-25T16:08:03Z")
One could argue that the vastly technologically superior militaries of the United States of America and other western nations involved in conflicts against islamic opponents are ineffective due to the suicide bombing phenomenon. Our military tactics, and indeed our entire culture, are largely based on the preconception that nobody wants to die. A single man can choose to stand against the greatest army if he has no fear of the consequences. Although we can introduce physical security measures to lessen the impact of a suicide bombing culture, we as yet have not actual means of addressing the problem directly. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/7 "2004-11-25T16:30:20Z")
> [@Fuji Kitakyusho](#): > > One could argue that the vastly technologically superior militaries of the United States of America and other western nations involved in conflicts against islamic opponents are ineffective due to the suicide bombing phenomenon. > > Our military tactics, and indeed our entire culture, are largely based on the preconception that nobody wants to die. A single man can choose to stand against the greatest army if he has no fear of the consequences. Although we can introduce physical security measures to lessen the impact of a suicide bombing culture, we as yet have not actual means of addressing the problem directly. How would you come to the conclusion that the bombers are _winning_ in any way? They haven’t been eliminated it is true - but in what way have they done their causes any good? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/8 "2004-11-25T16:33:51Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > How would you come to the conclusion that the bombers are _winning_ in any way? > > They haven’t been eliminated it is true - but in what way have they done their causes any good? They don’t have to win, they just have to survive and keep chipping away until we declare victory and piss off home. And given that our strategy is to play into their hands every time, ensuring an endless supply of new recruits with our ‘to a hammer every problem is a nail’ approach I’d say they’re probably winning. I can’t come up with any definition of the word ‘winning’ that encompasses us still bombing the capital city of a country we supposedly occupied a couple of years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji_Kitakyusho)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/9 "2004-11-25T16:45:33Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > How would you come to the conclusion that the bombers are _winning_ in any way? > > They haven’t been eliminated it is true - but in what way have they done their causes any good? I was discussing the phenomenon in a strictly tactical context. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/10 "2004-11-25T16:52:02Z")
> [@Satyagrahi](#): > > That said, I’ll give you a hint: look up the battle of Gaugamela, a prime example. I hope you get a good grade. Ditto Bannockburn. And for Pete’s sake, open an actual book. Google is handy but it’s not the end-all and be-all of research. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/11 "2004-11-25T16:53:37Z")
Oh, and in a business context if Microsoft/Apple is a valid example then you might investigate the sad case of Betamax. ---
**Author:** ![marky33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@marky33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marky33)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/12 "2004-11-25T17:18:06Z")
Battle of Britain. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/13 "2004-11-25T17:24:37Z")
The battle of Marathon, where the greeks defeated a vastly superior Persian army. > [@](#): > > in 490 B.C., 25,000 Persians under Darius landed on the Plain of Marathon. The Spartans were unwilling to provide help for the Athenians in time, so with the help of 1,000 Plataeans, and led by Callimachus and Miltiades, Athens’ army of about one third the size of the Persian’s, fought the Persians and won by encircling the Persian forces. This was the first Greek victory in the Persian Wars. Then the Greeks prevented a surprise Persian attack on Athens by a quick march back to the city to warn the inhabitants. > **[Battle of Marathon: Winners, Losers, and a Marathon Runner](https://www.thoughtco.com/persian-wars-battle-of-marathon-120238)** > > The Battle of Marathon was an important moment for the victorious Athenians, but it's known today more for a legendary runner than the battle itself. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/14 "2004-11-25T17:25:46Z")
Chancellorsville, April, 1863. The Seven Days, June, 1862. Second Bull Run, July, 1862. The Inchon Landings, 1950. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/15 "2004-11-25T18:35:30Z")
Agincourt. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/16 "2004-11-25T18:54:59Z")
Breitenfeld. Though the disparity was one more of perceived strengths and weaknesses than actual, those perceptions formed the tactical thinking of Tilly’s Imperial army, and delineated his limitations, tactical and psychological. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/17 "2004-11-25T19:24:29Z")
Thermopylae. Also, Afghanistan. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/18 "2004-11-25T19:37:21Z")
Alexander the Great versus the Persian Empire… on paper the Persian Empire was the super power of its day. ---
**Author:** ![5\_time\_champ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/278dde/32.png) [@5\_time\_champ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5_time_champ)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/19 "2004-11-25T19:52:53Z")
Villanova defeating Georgetown in the 1985 Men’s NCAA Basketball Final. ---
**Author:** ![LionelHutz405](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lionelhutz405/32/536_2.png) [@LionelHutz405](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LionelHutz405)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634/20 "2004-11-25T19:53:46Z")
Ali defeating Foreman in 1974 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-has-strategy-tactics-defeated-a-vastly-superior-enemy/276634.md?page=2)