# When Hollywood gets the message all wrong – worst lessons from TV/film. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 12, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198 "2009-05-12T18:32:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/181 "2009-05-14T21:55:13Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > **Thelma and Louise** : “All men are scum and it’s okay to shoot them if it makes you feel more empowered. You may have to kill yourself later, but that’s okay because it’s empowering too.” For some reason, feminists loved this message. That’s not at all what happens in _Thelma and Louise_. The only man who gets shot is a rapist. He is also scum to be sure, but that’s not WHY he gets shot, nor is it just so Louise can feel “empowered”. Thelma’s husband and the crude trucker could also be described as scum, but there are also good men in the movie like Louise’s boyfriend and the detective (Harvey Keitel) who’s trying to find Thelma and Louise. The cop who gets locked in his trunk is also portrayed sympathetically. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/182 "2009-05-14T23:22:49Z")
Muriel’s wedding: stealing money from your family is OK, even if it leads to your mother killing herself. Why this film is known as a feel-good movie, I’ll never know (surely it wasn’t intended as one?) The heroine is the kind of self-obsessed person I’d move towns to avoid. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2009, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/183 "2009-05-14T23:54:27Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Oh, she was hot. But Ted Bundy was hot and I wouldn’t have gotten into bed with him either! Well…I mean, NO. > > Actually I ordinarily like Phylicia Rashad. I saw her in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof playing Big Mama and thought she did a really good job. I just got so creeped out by Clair Huxtable. I hear this sometime about Claire, but I knew a lot of women just like her. I mean, she kind of nailed it, when it comes to a lot of the middle class women in my family and community. I did despise the grandparents, though. Every ep with them was an opportunity to catch ‘Growing Pains’ or something. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/184 "2009-05-15T00:03:07Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > Muriel’s wedding: stealing money from your family is OK, even if it leads to your mother killing herself. > > Why this film is known as a feel-good movie, I’ll never know (surely it wasn’t intended as one?) The heroine is the kind of self-obsessed person I’d move towns to avoid. Who on earth thinks that is a “feel good” movie? I thought it was a good film and all, but it was depressing as hell. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/185 "2009-05-15T00:35:59Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Who on earth thinks that is a “feel good” movie? I thought it was a good film and all, but it was depressing as hell. It was marketed as a feel good movie, and I’ve seen it listed as a feel good movie by lots of people who obviously watched a different film to you and me. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/186 "2009-05-15T00:47:07Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > This thread is about movies with a message. > > There is no such thing as a David Lynch movie with a message. :smack: I’ll make a note of it. 😉 _Muriel’s Wedding_ was an amalgam of two movies, IMO–a nice romantic comedy and a weird-ass drama. It didn’t meld well. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/187 "2009-05-15T01:06:35Z")
If there’s one message to be taken away from David Lynch’s work, it’s “never serve anyone anything less than the finest quality coffee available.” ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/188 "2009-05-15T01:30:02Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > …he’s basically conscripting Will to fight for him in real wars - but as a loyal and honorable vassal, instead of a self-serving, vicious heel like Adhemar. Indeed. Also from memory (heh, I just might have to go watch it again) 🙂 wasn’t Adhemar described as captain of a large mercenary company? You know, not chaps who are fighting for King and country, but for coin and king-who-can-pay-me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/189 "2009-05-15T03:06:05Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > If there’s one message to be taken away from David Lynch’s work, it’s “never serve anyone anything less than the finest quality coffee available.” Damn good coffee. And damn good pie. ---
**Author:** ![adhemar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@adhemar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhemar)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/190 "2009-05-15T06:31:12Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The whole point of the jousting tournaments was to provide a venue for knights to train during peace time. By making Will a “real” knight, he’s basically conscripting Will to fight for him in real wars - but as a loyal and honorable vassal, instead of a self-serving, vicious heel like Adhemar. hey now! ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/191 "2009-05-15T06:53:58Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Indeed. Also from memory (heh, I just might have to go watch it again) 🙂 wasn’t Adhemar described as captain of a large mercenary company? You know, not chaps who are fighting for King and country, but for coin and king-who-can-pay-me. 🙂 That’s still more honorable than doing nothing but jousting in tournaments to earn all of your money. At least the other guy risked his life on the battlefield - the only thing Heath Ledger risked was death by accident if a splinter of a shattered lance were to go through the ridiculously wide slit in his helmet’s visor and pierce his brain. A real jousting helmet from Medieval times would have had a very, very narrow slit in the visor that could really only be seen through while the wearer had his head tilted forward. It would have looked something like [this](http://www.museum-joanneum.at/cms/dokumente/10956041_29013204/50933f72/Stechhelm.jpg) - and [“great helms”](http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/300404.jpg) of the “Crusader” variety were also used in tournaments, but nothing like what Heath Ledger wore in that movie would have been used in any context, because the type of helmet he wears in that film seems to have been completely made-up for the movie. I have seen hundreds of different pictures of Medieval and Renaissance-era helmets and I have never seen any tournament helmet with as large of an eye slit as the helmet from A Knight’s Tale. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/192 "2009-05-15T09:15:48Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > _Muriel’s Wedding_ was an amalgam of two movies, IMO–a nice romantic comedy and a weird-ass drama. It didn’t meld well. I thought the point of MW was that she was trying to live a romantic comedy (with an ABBA soundtrack) and reality kept getting in the way. She eventually accepts reality and grows up. And IIRC the mother killed herself and set fire to the lawn because it was the only way she could get the rest of the family to pay any attention to her. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/193 "2009-05-15T13:08:04Z")
What about the odd friend who suddenly has polio or paralysis or whatever? Whose life dings from romantic comedy to Shakespearian tragedy and back again? most of us have somewhere in between. I would have liked the movie more if it had been one or the other; IMO, it tried too hard to be both and failed at both. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/194 "2009-05-15T14:19:47Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > If there’s one message to be taken away from David Lynch’s work, it’s “never serve anyone anything less than the finest quality coffee available.” Lol Does this apply in more than one movie? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/195 "2009-05-15T14:25:20Z")
> [@jimigorilla](#): > > It seems to me many people are confusing what happens in a movie (or any story) with the morals of said movie or story. Without wanting to give Hollywood too much credit for high standing morals, if a story has a negative content, usually that doesn’t mean that the storyteller condones such behaviour. It’s more often intended (however blandly and tastelessly) as a warning of sorts. A ‘realistic’ movie may portray people and events in a rather grim light, not because that is how the director wants reality to be, but because that is how he perceives reality to be. I agree. If something bad/unfair happens, I don’t think that the director necessarily condones it. Okay, I mean, I obviously disagree with the message of say, Birth of a Nation. But I don’t think that Forrest Gump necessarily means breaking free of system=AIDS, doing what you’re told=rich. Sometimes things just…happen, for lack of a better word. ---
**Author:** ![Chanteuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de053/32.png) [@Chanteuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chanteuse)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/196 "2009-05-15T14:43:53Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > That’s still more honorable than doing nothing but jousting in tournaments to earn all of your money. At least the other guy risked his life on the battlefield - the only thing Heath Ledger risked was death by accident if a splinter of a shattered lance were to go through the ridiculously wide slit in his helmet’s visor and pierce his brain. A real jousting helmet from Medieval times would have had a very, very narrow slit in the visor that could really only be seen through while the wearer had his head tilted forward. It would have looked something like [this](http://www.museum-joanneum.at/cms/dokumente/10956041_29013204/50933f72/Stechhelm.jpg) - and [“great helms”](http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/images/300404.jpg) of the “Crusader” variety were also used in tournaments, but nothing like what Heath Ledger wore in that movie would have been used in any context, because the type of helmet he wears in that film seems to have been completely made-up for the movie. I have seen hundreds of different pictures of Medieval and Renaissance-era helmets and I have never seen any tournament helmet with as large of an eye slit as the helmet from A Knight’s Tale. He was risking more than that. Remember, what he was doing was considered a capital crime. Don’t forget how he was imprisoned and debased when it all came to light. He was risking everything he had, not simply for notoriety, or to impress a girl, but to change his very destiny. All life was offering him was perpetual poverty, and the laws of the land were set up to keep him and others like him confined to that. He wanted to “change his stars” and he laid it all on the line to do just that. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/197 "2009-05-15T14:52:22Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > What about the odd friend who suddenly has polio or paralysis or whatever? > > Whose life dings from romantic comedy to Shakespearian tragedy and back again? most of us have somewhere in between. I would have liked the movie more if it had been one or the other; IMO, it tried too hard to be both and failed at both. YMMV. All I can say is: never ever see _Pennies From Heaven_ (either version). It’ll give you emotional whiplash. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/198 "2009-05-15T15:03:02Z")
[quote=“ivylass, post:111, topic:496198”] This is what finally killed \*\*Desperate Housewives \*\*for me. Gabby is using Carlos’ handicapped sticker to get good parking spaces, even though he’s not in the car with her. When confronted by a man \*in a wheelchair \*who threatens to call the cops, she snatches the phone out of his hand and throws it across the lot, then tiptups in her high heels to her convertible to make her getaway. So, apparently on Wisteria Lane, paralyzed folks are fodder for hyucks.[/QUOTE In that case, yes, the man in the wheelchair was used for laughs in that it showed us, the viewers, what a self-centered, thoughtless, entitled little bitch Gabby could sometimes be. So? We all know life is hard for people in wheelchairs. Life is hard for everyone. Gabby wants what she wants and it doesn’t matter if they’re in a wheelchair or not. It’s dark humor. Dr. House got into a fine pissing match with a doctor in a wheelchair who took his parking space. He made some good arguments as to why he should have it back, though he discovered it isn’t as easy as he thought, wrangling a wheelchair in the snow. Was he an ass? Yes. Did t1he doctor in the wheelchair get used as comedy fodder? Yes, Did we laugh? I did! ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/199 "2009-05-15T15:29:22Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I’m pretty sure the _Beauty and the Beast_ mentioned is the TV show from the late-80s. I thought it was the Disney Version in which Belle is a hostage in the Beast’s castle. Vincent (from the TV series) never kept Katherine prisoner, he just nursed her back to health after she was attacked and then she went home. Then they hung out and read a lot of poetry together. ETA: Holy crap! This is a four-page thread??? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/200 "2009-05-15T15:39:30Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > Vincent (from the TV series) never kept Katherine prisoner, he just nursed her back to health after she was attacked and then she went home. Then they hung out and read a lot of poetry together. That sounds like a real improvement on the original. They got an entire season of episodes out of this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198.md?page=11)