# When Hollywood gets the message all wrong – worst lessons from TV/film. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 12, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198 "2009-05-12T18:32:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/221 "2009-05-17T05:07:49Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > [Monster](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0340855/): All men are scum and it’s OK to shoot them if it makes you feel empowered (or hell, if you just need some money), and anyway, shooting a bunch of men doesn’t make you a despicable serial killer, it makes you a feminist heroine. Did we see the same movie? The one I remember seeing pretty much had the exact opposite message. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/222 "2009-05-17T06:04:17Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Did we see the same movie? The one I remember seeing pretty much had the exact opposite message. I agree - but the advertising was more like what spoke got from the film. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/223 "2009-05-17T06:26:08Z")
re: Slasher Films I know a lot of people think that slasher films are about showing some puritan/religious right God’s vengeance on misbehaving teens, but consider this. If you make a movie with (late) teens having sex, the film is rated x. If you put a machete through the girl when they’re done, it’s rated R. They want to make a sex film, but a rated R film makes more money. re: Beauty and the Beast/fairy tales in general. True Love conquerors All. Which is total BULLSHIT. You see, if you love him, he’ll turn from a beast to a prince. So if he smacks you around, it’s because you don’t love him, truely love him. Or she’ll wake up if it is the kiss of true love. Pink Floyd’s The Wall Tear down the wall? Yeah right! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/224 "2009-05-17T07:47:34Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Another message that I personally didn’t take away from the film, but which I’ve heard some people complain about: > > _Saving Private Ryan_: One mother’s last son is more valuable than the husbands, fathers, sons, and brothers of ten or twelve other women. > [@Sailboat](#): > > . > > Yeah – I would rephrase that as “The impression that the government cares about one mother’s last son is more _politically_ valuable than the husbands, fathers, sons, and brothers of ten or twelve other women. Ain’t that a bitch?” > > Also, individuals will be consumed by the remorseless struggle for dominance between super-organisms. Ain’t _that_ a bitch? You do know it was based on a true story, right? Steven Ambrose heard about Fritz Niland when he was researching Band of Brothers. PVT Niland had three brothers killed in the same way it was shown in the movie . One brother was in the 82nd Airborne and killed inland during D-Day. One brother was in the 4th Infantry Division and was killed on the beach. The third brother was in the Army Air Corps and was reported dead in Burma, he was later found to be alive and a POW. Niland was ordered out of Normandy the same way it happened in the movie. Of course it wasn’t as dramatic in real life. The word went out to find him and a chaplain did and he was sent back. > [@stuthehistoryguy](#): > > Excellent point, msmith537. This is why I detested _My Big, Fat, Greek Wedding_ so much. The man changed his entire identity, changed his religion, and moved in next door to his in-laws. (If that’s not a prescription for homicide, I don’t know what is.) She didn’t do one thing to go over to his world. I foresee festering resentment for decades to come. Welcome to real life. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/225 "2009-05-17T16:09:18Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Did we see the same movie? The one I remember seeing pretty much had the exact opposite message. Really? You really didn’t see the feminist themes of _Monster_? You didn’t notice that all the victims, up until the last, somehow had it coming? That Wuornos, her whole life, was a victim of wicked men imposing their sexual desires on her? That she was striking a blow in return? That the title of the movie was ironic? That it was supposed to make us think about who had created this “monster?” (Hint: wicked men.) Maybe we _didn’t_ see the same movie. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/226 "2009-05-17T16:19:55Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > **The Graduate** : If you stalk a woman long enough, she will blow off her wedding and forget that you slept with her mom. A _lot_ of Hollywood movies seem to encourage stalking as the way to win a woman’s heart. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/227 "2009-05-17T16:28:23Z")
A lot of songs encourage stalking. A lot of everything in American culture (and presumably world culture) before, say, 1970 made what was in fact stalking to look like it was cute. The whole notion of stalking as a crime is rather recent. In older times, it was assumed that a man in love with a woman just had to be persistent enough and the women would come around to being in love with him too. Occasionally, though not nearly as commonly, there were be stories with a woman pursuing a man in the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/228 "2009-05-17T16:30:47Z")
_The Dark Knight_: Torture is OK if you’re battling evildoers. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/229 "2009-05-17T16:43:01Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > re: Beauty and the Beast/fairy tales in general. > > True Love conquerors All. Which is total BULLSHIT. You see, if you love him, he’ll turn from a beast to a prince. So if he smacks you around, it’s because you don’t love him, truely love him. Or she’ll wake up if it is the kiss of true love. Didn’t we just do this a few pages ago? The Beast never hurt Beauty. Yes, she was imprisoned in the castle, but she chose to go (it was either her or her father, for picking the rose). It’s sort of creepy but not really as bad as it’s being made out to be. For a fairy tale that doesn’t do the love conquers all, try The Little Mermaid. It’s my favorite. Though by no means the bleakest–I think the one with the toy soldier who does everything to win the heart of the ballerina doll and then ends up thrown into the fire with her is the worst. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/230 "2009-05-17T16:44:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [“Beauty and the Beast” is much older than Andersen.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beauty_and_the_Beast) I just noticed this and was going to say something. Did Andersen even do a version of Beauty and the Beast? If so, I’ve never seen it. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/231 "2009-05-17T18:16:01Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > _Fight Club_: Terrorism is personally cleansing and is really a rebirth experience of sorts. I thought it was: don’t raid liposuction clinics with barbed-wire fences ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/232 "2009-05-17T18:36:12Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > For a fairy tale that doesn’t do the love conquers all, try The Little Mermaid. It’s my favorite. Though by no means the bleakest–I think the one with the toy soldier who does everything to win the heart of the ballerina doll and then ends up thrown into the fire with her is the worst. Is anyone surprised Andersen died a virgin? ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/233 "2009-05-17T18:41:42Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Is anyone surprised Andersen died a virgin? He was gay, wasn’t he? So he probably wouldn’t have the most favorable or romanticised outlook on M/F relationships. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/234 "2009-05-17T19:26:09Z")
Actually, he was apparently bisexual, but both the women and the men that he was attracted to had no interest in him: > **[Hans Christian Andersen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Christian_Andersen)** > > Hans Christian Andersen (/ˈændərsən/ AN-dər-sən, .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .reference-text .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}Danish: \[ˈhænˀs ˈkʰʁestjæn ˈɑnɐsn̩\] ⓘ; 2 April 1805 – 4 August 1875) was a Danish author. Although a prolific writer of plays, travelogues, novels, and poems, he is best remembered for his literary fairy tales. > Andersen's fairy tales, consisting ... ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/235 "2009-05-17T19:40:16Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Actually, he was apparently bisexual, but both the women and the men that he was attracted to had no interest in him: > > [Hans Christian Andersen - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Christian_Andersen) Well, can you blame them? Based on his work, he seems uber emo. You know the kind…“I will throw myself on your pyre and burn myself so that we can languish together in death.” “Uh, it’s just our first date, man.” ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/236 "2009-05-17T19:43:40Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > re: Beauty and the Beast/fairy tales in general. > > True Love conquerors All. Which is total BULLSHIT. You see, if you love him, he’ll turn from a beast to a prince. So if he smacks you around, it’s because you don’t love him, truely love him. Or she’ll wake up if it is the kiss of true love. ! Sorry, but that’s simple bullshit. Can you show me one instance of the Beast ever smacking Beauty around in a tale of that name? ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/237 "2009-05-17T19:46:08Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > You do know it was based on a true story, right? Steven Ambrose heard about Fritz Niland when he was researching Band of Brothers. PVT Niland had three brothers killed in the same way it was shown in the movie . One brother was in the 82nd Airborne and killed inland during D-Day. One brother was in the 4th Infantry Division and was killed on the beach. The third brother was in the Army Air Corps and was reported dead in Burma, he was later found to be alive and a POW. Niland was ordered out of Normandy the same way it happened in the movie. Of course it wasn’t as dramatic in real life. The word went out to find him and a chaplain did and he was sent back. The film mentions [the Sullivan brothers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sullivan_brothers) and the USS Juneau as a political reason to go get Ryan. All five of the Sullivans were serving on the Juneau when it was torpedoed and sunk in 1942. Their deaths caused the Navy to reinforce a policy about not having siblings serve on the same vessel (the rule was already in place but not generally adhered to). The Sullivan brothers’ deaths also brought about the [Sole Survivor Policy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_Survivor_Policy). It is the policy under which Niland was removed from combat duty. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/238 "2009-05-17T19:58:37Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > _The Dark Knight_: Torture is OK if you’re battling evildoers. I think the whole point was missed here. The one being tortured (The Joker) \*\*expected \*\*the torture and gave false information, while omitting the little detail that another bomb was in the Jail. In other words, just like I suspected it happened when torture was used to find evidence that Osama had help from Saddam. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/239 "2009-05-17T20:09:56Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > True Love conquerors All. Which is total BULLSHIT. You see, if you love him, he’ll turn from a beast to a prince. So if he smacks you around, it’s because you don’t love him, truely love him. Or she’ll wake up if it is the kiss of true love. Also, in another version of Sleeping Beauty (Sun, Moon, and Talia), she isn’t awakened by the kiss of twoo wuv. The prince has sex with her, leaves, she gets pregnant and gives birth (still unconscious) and then she wakes up when one of the babies sucks the splinter (from the spinning wheel) from her finger. I’m getting the sense that most people who complain about fairy tales never read the original versions… ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/240 "2009-05-17T20:10:10Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I think the whole point was missed here. Maybe you missed the larger point of the movie: You have to break the rules to beat the terrorists, and if people wind up hating you for it, well, that’s just the price you pay for being a hero. The whole movie was an apologia for the Bush administration. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198.md?page=13)