# When Hollywood gets the message all wrong – worst lessons from TV/film. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 12, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198 "2009-05-12T18:32:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/241 "2009-05-17T20:11:30Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Really? You really didn’t see the feminist themes of _Monster_? You didn’t notice that all the victims, up until the last, somehow had it coming? That Wuornos, her whole life, was a victim of wicked men imposing their sexual desires on her? That she was striking a blow in return? That the title of the movie was ironic? That it was supposed to make us think about who had created this “monster?” (Hint: wicked men.) > > Maybe we _didn’t_ see the same movie. Just because the movie manages to evoke some sympathy for her situation doesn’t in any way suggest that it condones her actions. Several of her johns are portrayed sympathetically, but even with the ones that aren’t, to assert that the movie argues for the disproportionate punishment of death for each and every one of them, painting as broad a brush stroke about gender as you claim, says more about your predisposed mindset in reading the film that way than anything that actually exists in the film to support such a wrong-headed interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/242 "2009-05-17T20:25:54Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Amusing one : > **The Green Mile** : If you meet Christ, kill him. Beeing perfectly good makes him unhappy. Well. He can’t be Jesus if he doesn’t die and come back. Not a proper Jesus anyway. Killing him is for the greater good! ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/243 "2009-05-17T21:02:16Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I just noticed this and was going to say something. Did Andersen even do a version of Beauty and the Beast? If so, I’ve never seen it. No, he didn’t. There may be some confusion due to the fact that “Beauty and the Beast” is not really a folk tale, it’s a literary work with a known author. There are several famous fairy tales that were penned by Andersen (“The Little Mermaid”, “The Snow Queen”, “Thumbelina”, etc.), but “Beauty and the Beast” was not one of them. The author of the most familiar version of “Beauty and the Beast” was Madame Leprince de Beaumont (first published in the 1750s), but she apparently got the idea from a longer work by Madame Barbot de Villeneuve in 1740. The basic idea of a woman marrying an animal or monster goes back much further, and as Iona and Peter Opie point out in _Classic Fairy Tales_, the story of Cupid and Psyche in _The Golden Ass_ (2nd century AD, very likely based on an even older folktale) is pretty similar. But the “Beauty and the Beast” we know today is de Beaumont’s version. Well, I guess the Disney version may be equally famous now, but the text you find in a fairy tale anthology is probably going to be de Beaumont’s story. Incidentally, the Disney version draws heavily from Jean Cocteau’s 1946 film _La Belle et La Bete_. Cocteau introduced a subplot involving a handsome but scheming suitor for Beauty, a man who is rejected by her early on but who later goes to the Beast’s castle and attempts to kill him to “save” Beauty. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/244 "2009-05-17T21:21:55Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > Maybe you missed the larger point of the movie: You have to break the rules to beat the terrorists, and if people wind up hating you for it, well, that’s just the price you pay for being a hero. The whole movie was an apologia for the Bush administration. That still misses that the actions of the joker showed that torture did not work, and I was replying to that specifically. Now, surveillance, that is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/245 "2009-05-17T22:58:07Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > Just because the movie manages to evoke some sympathy for her situation doesn’t in any way suggest that it condones her actions. Several of her johns are portrayed sympathetically, but even with the ones that aren’t, to assert that the movie argues for the disproportionate punishment of death for each and every one of them, painting as broad a brush stroke about gender as you claim, says more about your predisposed mindset in reading the film that way than anything that actually exists in the film to support such a wrong-headed interpretation. What do you think was the filmmaker’s point in making this particular movie, about this particular person? And what is intended by the film’s title? ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/246 "2009-05-18T00:02:49Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Amusing one : > **The Green Mile** : If you meet Christ, kill him. Being perfectly good makes him unhappy. To be fair, John Coffey was misunderstood…they took him to be a murderer, after all. I think he saw the futility of trying always to “take it back” and wanted to be away from all those people he couldn’t get to to help. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/247 "2009-05-18T00:15:32Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Sorry, but that’s simple bullshit. Can you show me one instance of the Beast ever smacking Beauty around in a tale of that name? He didn’t smack her. He just held her hostage in his castle and flew into threatening fits of rage when she didn’t tow his line. He also, of course, threatened her with starvation when she declined to date him. Not like that’s abusive or anything, though. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/248 "2009-05-18T00:15:59Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > \*\*Friends \*\*– > > \*\*Beauty and the Beast \*\*– stay with your abuser! There’s a good man in there! On the same note, General Hospital Luke and Laura: Your rapist can turn out to be your true love. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/249 "2009-05-18T01:26:50Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > On the same note, General Hospital Luke and Laura: Your rapist can turn out to be your true love. To be fair, General Hospital _did_ abandon that particular message. Luke and Laura ultimately divorced precisely because of that issue. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/250 "2009-05-18T01:51:46Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > To be fair, General Hospital _did_ abandon that particular message. Luke and Laura ultimately divorced precisely because of that issue. Are you serious? Well, THAT is even more lame. They were joyfully united for a quarter century and she finally remembers that he raped her? What happened? ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/251 "2009-05-18T02:13:17Z")
Yeah, but they got back together… over and over, every time the ratings dipped. And IIRC they did not get divorced because of the rape- although their son was a bit horrified when informed of it by his half-brother. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/252 "2009-05-18T02:30:11Z")
In all fairness to General Hospital, the theme of daytime soaps is all about dysfunctional relationships. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/253 "2009-05-18T03:53:28Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Incidentally, the Disney version draws heavily from Jean Cocteau’s 1946 film _La Belle et La Bete_. Cocteau introduced a subplot involving a handsome but scheming suitor for Beauty, a man who is rejected by her early on but who later goes to the Beast’s castle and attempts to kill him to “save” Beauty. And the rose and the magical mirror–or are those also in the original story? ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/254 "2009-05-18T04:31:32Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Yeah, but they got back together… over and over, every time the ratings dipped. And IIRC they did not get divorced because of the rape- although their son was a bit horrified when informed of it by his half-brother. My memory is pretty fuzzy, but I thought that their relationship suffered its killing blow once Lucky learned of the rape. I know that Laura was involved with Stefan for awhile after that (shudder) and she was not reconciled with Luke when Scottie drove her insane and they shipped her off to the asylum. In fact, Luke was free to marry Tracy Quartermaine after that. **Stoid** it wasn’t that she suddenly remembered he raped her, it was that Lucky found out after Elizabeth was raped, and he was so horrified/disgusted that the whole thing sort of imploded IIRC. Currently, she’s living in Paris and Luke elected to remain married to Tracy. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/255 "2009-05-18T09:48:56Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > For a fairy tale that doesn’t do the love conquers all, try The Little Mermaid. It’s my favorite. Though by no means the bleakest–I think the one with the toy soldier who does everything to win the heart of the ballerina doll and then ends up thrown into the fire with her is the worst. There are a lot of stories like that - I’ve always hated “The Velveteen Rabbit”, despite its ultimately “happy” ending, See also the original ending of “The Hunchback of Notre Dame”. Esmeralda gets hanged and Quasimodo curls up with her corpse until he starves to death. Only the goat lives happily ever after. Wonder why Disney didn’t go with that ending? ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/256 "2009-05-18T15:13:44Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Also, in another version of Sleeping Beauty (Sun, Moon, and Talia), she isn’t awakened by the kiss of twoo wuv. The prince has sex with her, leaves, she gets pregnant and gives birth (still unconscious) and then she wakes up when one of the babies sucks the splinter (from the spinning wheel) from her finger. > > I’m getting the sense that most people who complain about fairy tales never read the original versions… Please recommend a compilation of these originals! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/257 "2009-05-18T15:35:06Z")
That story of Sleeping Beauty - with the pregnancy and the baby - has always creeped the shit out of me. I keep imagining things like the umbilical cord just dragging around, and the placenta laying between her legs, and maybe streaks of blood everywhere, with flies… yeah, that’s fucking creepy. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/258 "2009-05-18T16:11:00Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > And the rose and the magical mirror–or are those also in the original story? The magic mirror is in the original, as is the business about the father plucking the rose and thus incurring a debt to the Beast. (The latter plot point is not in the Disney movie, but is in the Coctaeu.) I believe the enchanted rose that indicates how long the Beast has left to live is unique to the Disney version, but the idea of an important rose does derive from the original story. I’m not sure why Disney changed it around, maybe to make the father more sympathetic. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/259 "2009-05-18T17:06:27Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Please recommend a compilation of these originals! 🙂 I grew up reading Andrew Lang’s fairy tale compilations, which are known by the color of their covers. The Blue Fairy Book, The Red Fairy Book, etc. All complete with the gory details (eating babies, walking until the soles of your feet shred, cutting off a finger to finish a ladder) and quite beautiful illustrations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198.md?page=12)