# When Hollywood gets the message all wrong – worst lessons from TV/film. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 12, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198 "2009-05-12T18:32:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/41 "2009-05-12T23:07:09Z")
_Fight Club_: Terrorism is personally cleansing and is really a rebirth experience of sorts. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/42 "2009-05-12T23:20:46Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Or the situations where the person clearly wants to not be pregnant, but instead of abortion, a miscarriage is conveniently written in. Because women who miscarry are unfortunate paragons of virtue but women who choose to abort are evil harpies. In [_Dangerous Liaisons,_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_Liaisons) Valmont gets the young Cecile de Volanges pregnant, but she conveniently miscarries. In [_Valmont_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valmont_(movie)) (based on the same novel) she is still (secretly) pregnant when she marries Gercourt (exchanging a wink with Valmont’s aunt, who is in on the secret, as she marches down the aisle). I dunno how it ends in the book. (IIRC, nobody gets pregnand in [_Cruel Intentions.)_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruel_Intentions) ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/43 "2009-05-12T23:25:22Z")
_A Knight’s Tale_: given a choice between a reasonably attractive woman who can support herself, give you good advice, and who treats you well, and a stuck-up, high-maintenance, well-born beauty who manipulates you and nearly gets you killed, go for the beauty. Guys, could you _please_ explain this one to me? ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/44 "2009-05-12T23:26:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Space Whale Aesop,](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SpaceWhaleAesop) I have nothing add, except: BAND NAME! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/45 "2009-05-12T23:27:38Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > _Sixteen Candles_: You should trade your passed-out girlfriend to another guy to do with as he will so you can get the previously mentioned girl. I vigorously dispute that this is a bad message. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/46 "2009-05-12T23:28:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > In [_Dangerous Liaisons,_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_Liaisons) Valmont gets the young Cecile de Volanges pregnant, but she conveniently miscarries. In [_Valmont_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valmont_(movie)) (based on the same novel) she is still (secretly) pregnant when she marries Gercourt (exchanging a wink with Valmont’s aunt, who is in on the secret, as she marches down the aisle). I dunno how it ends in the book. (IIRC, nobody gets pregnand in [_Cruel Intentions.)_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruel_Intentions) I read the book, and she miscarries in it as well. Also, another fan of Dangerous Liaisons who has also seen Cruel Intentions! It’s kind of fun to enjoy something so trashy on a higher level, isn’t it? I actually watched CI for the first time in a French lit course where we were reading Dangerous Liaisons and our teacher was showing us clips of a lot of diff film versions. > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Um…what version of Beauty & the Beast has that moral? I’m curious, too. In every version I’ve read or seen (the most recent being the Cocteau film), he’s devoted and polite to her. He asks her every night if she will marry him/if she loves him (okay, that could get annoying) but he’s not abusive. It’s not till she chooses to marry him and realizes she loves him that they end up together. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/47 "2009-05-12T23:31:11Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > _A Knight’s Tale_: given a choice between a reasonably attractive woman who can support herself, give you good advice, and who treats you well, and a stuck-up, high-maintenance, well-born beauty who manipulates you and nearly gets you killed, go for the beauty. > > Guys, could you _please_ explain this one to me? It’s just classic [Betty and Veronica.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BettyAndVeronica) ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/48 "2009-05-12T23:32:47Z")
> [@](#): > > He asks her every night if she will marry him/if she loves him That’s a fuck ton of needy and pushiness. Neither of which are good. > [@](#): > > It’s not till she chooses to marry him and realizes she loves him that they end up together. She marries him _before_ “realizing” her love for him? So he browbeat her into it using the aforementioned pushiness? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/49 "2009-05-12T23:34:37Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > That’s a fuck ton of needy and pushiness. Neither of which are good. Dude, it was written hundreds of years ago. And he’s a BEAST. The fact that he didn’t hump her leg at the dinner table every night is a point in his favor. > [@](#): > > She marries him _before_ “realizing” her love for him? So he browbeat her into it using the aforementioned pushiness? Um, no. I didn’t say that. And have you ever actually read Beauty and the Beast? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/50 "2009-05-12T23:37:37Z")
I’m pretty sure the _Beauty and the Beast_ mentioned is the TV show from the late-80s. ---
**Author:** ![AdmiralCrunch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@AdmiralCrunch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AdmiralCrunch)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/51 "2009-05-12T23:38:49Z")
Every ghost/monster movie ever. Some poor schmuck rationally says that some anecdotal event is probably nothing. He hasn’t seen it, and it’s a rather common thing to hear. So he dies immediately. The message: live in constant fear of the paranormal. -or- Most movies featuring scientists. _Evil_ scientists. The only way to defeat them is action. Lesson: Don’t trust intellectual authority when you can go with an ignorant gut feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/52 "2009-05-12T23:50:38Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I’m pretty sure the _Beauty and the Beast_ mentioned is the TV show from the late-80s. Disney. I’m pretty sure holding someone captive in your castle and forcing you to date them or starve counts as abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2009, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/53 "2009-05-12T23:59:15Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I haven’t seen it but it doesn’t look like her daughter’s argument is that it’s about owing anything to feminism. More that having a baby at Maude’s stage of life probably isn’t a great idea. I’m sure she’d have said the same thing to a guy of that age who was considering having a child. At one point, Maude says something about being unsure if she wants to have an abortion, and Carol says something similar to, “But you were in favor of them passing that law!” I dislike the implication that because Maude is in favor of someone’s right to chose, it means that abortion is the right choice for her. Like I said before, at the end it was clear that Maude did not want the baby, and her choice was probably the correct one. But Carol sometimes made it sound as if Maude would be a idiot if she wanted to keep it. She was \*completely \*unsuportive of her mother, and I felt it was implied that she would continue to be unsuportive if Maude kept her baby. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/54 "2009-05-13T00:27:01Z")
Considering we’ve had a few threads about it lately, I’m genuinely surprised that nobody has yet dipped into the grab bag of horrifyingly backward morals that is the _Twilight_ saga. It’s cool for much-older guys to be obsessed with teenage girls to the point that they spy on them while they’re sleeping before they’re acquainted. Also, it’s romantic for guys to be domineering to the point of controlling your life, because they know what’s best for you anyway. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/55 "2009-05-13T00:29:49Z")
_White Mischief_:\* [spoiler]If you’re rich and bored while living in a foreign country, it’s okay to have an affair and fuck each other’s brains out – as long as you don’t fall in love. If you’re rich and cuckolded while living in a foreign country, it’s okay to kill the person your spouse has fallen in love with – as long as you don’t leave too much evidence.[/spoiler]\* Fairly arty film some may not have seen. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/56 "2009-05-13T00:34:37Z")
**Pulp Fiction:** Sordid violence is unbelievably glamorous **Boogie Nights:** If you were meant to be a porn star, everything else you might try is a distraction and potentially a deadly mistake. Unless you stumble onto a bungled doughnut shop robbery. Otherwise, get back to the one awful thing you do well! **Goldfinger:** There’s nothing wrong with a willful butch lesbian that a skillful penis and a suave British accent can’t cure. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/57 "2009-05-13T00:45:32Z")
My take on any version of Beauty and the Beast: the love of a good woman can transform even the worst of men. :rolleyes: Most contemporary sitcoms: men are incompetent around the house! Women know everything! Fantasy Island: you can have your dream come true, but there will always be some kind of nightmare contained within it. The Andy Griffith Show: looky at how “extra good” a southern town can be without any black folk in it at all. I Dream of Jeanie: keep your loved one a secret from all your friends and colleagues. Let her call you master and wear skimpy clothes (but cover that belly button!). Even in a bottle and with no formal education, a sex slave can still solve problems that an astronaut cannot. The Brady Bunch: Blend a family by never, ever mentioning the dead/divorced parents who helped spawn these imps of Satan. Reinforce strict gender roles in every show. Refuse to portray realistic problems or solutions to any of the problems presented. Have a housekeeper who does as little as the housewife. Never have any laundry shown. Do not allow any of the kids to have outside friends. Keep the youngest female child in some kind of arrested development time warp. Encourage them all to sing as well… There is no lesson to be learned here–this is the first circle of hell. ---
**Author:** ![smurfslappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@smurfslappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smurfslappa)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/58 "2009-05-13T00:46:25Z")
Worst message IMHO? That whenever there is a black president it’s the end of the world. The Fifth Element: A giant demon-rock is heading toward Earth to destroy it. Deep Impact: A giant rock is heading toward Earth to destroy it. 24, the TV series: The world is always ending somehow, and the president is black. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/59 "2009-05-13T00:48:17Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > **Pulp Fiction:** Sordid violence is unbelievably glamorous. You thought _Pulp Fiction_ was _glamorous_? ---
**Author:** ![smurfslappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@smurfslappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smurfslappa)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/60 "2009-05-13T01:07:23Z")
> [@smurfslappa](#): > > Worst message IMHO? That whenever there is a black president it’s the end of the world. > > The Fifth Element: A giant demon-rock is heading toward Earth to destroy it. > Deep Impact: A giant rock is heading toward Earth to destroy it. > 24, the TV series: The world is always ending somehow, and the president is black. I almost forgot, Idiocracy: The people are so stupid they used a sports drink similar to Gatorade to water their fields (because it has electrolytes, the stuff plants like!) and their fields are barren. I wonder though, there is a lot of crap going on in the world right now. The threat of worldwide economic collapse is imminent. Trade may actually screech to a halt with it, at least where the lines of division are drawn (us versus them). The threat of nuclear weapons falling into the hands of religious extremists in the Middle East is at an all-time high, via either Iran or Pakistan. I see a very grim future, so could this actually be a message Hollywood got right!? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198.md?page=4)