# When Hollywood gets the message all wrong – worst lessons from TV/film. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 12, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198 "2009-05-12T18:32:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/121 "2009-05-13T18:01:01Z")
> [@Idlewild](#): > > That’s not the message I got. I got “You’re a tool if you follow anyone without thinking independently, whether it’s the IKEA salesman, or that guy having a psychotic break who wants you to join his terrorist cult.” This. > [@](#): > > However, I thought it was tremendously amusing how many people seemed to adopt Tyler Durden’s philosophies as a creed after seeing the film, given that he was the product of a dissociative disorder. Yes, a lot of people missed the point, though many of those missed it and then came back and got it later. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/122 "2009-05-13T18:02:13Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > That’s not what I got out of it. I saw it as more of a Taoist message. > > Jenny dealt with her past with addictions to sex and drugs, and it nearly destroyed her. Lt. Dan couldn’t fulfill his destiny so he turned to alcohol and whoring to deal with it. Forrest simply accepted reality as he saw it, went with the flow, and attracted great things to his life by not fighting against life. > > I’m probably way off on that analysis. I don’t think so. Forrest’s good fortune came a lot from his relationship to others. He inspired others by his selfless caring for them that they returned the favor in some way. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/123 "2009-05-13T18:03:34Z")
> [@Tenebras](#): > > Kay Bailey Hutchinson’s old press secretary. > > [Link](http://www.statesman.com/opinion/content/editorial/stories/04/15/0415mackowiak_edit.html) > > To be fair, one could argue that he’s just looking to get into a fight. Wow, that’s insane. But then again the Tax Day Tea Parties were totally insane. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/124 "2009-05-13T18:08:51Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I guess I can see it that way, but every time I watch it (which is about twice a day\*) I see her literally being labeled and then every time she tries to change, she get’s told not to, because she’s a tinker…it’s who she is. > \*Of all the TV movies she wants to watch over and over it’s one of the few I don’t mind sitting through. Heh, my wife had a bit of input on the story. The aspect of the roles was part of an initiative to give girls useful identities in the context of the story rather than the general wallpaper at the whim of the boys with actual personalities thing that’s so common in children’s properties. Sure, I can see your point of view on it, but at the same time Faeries have always been about being some kind of nature archetype, and so putting a faerie into a prescribed role isn’t so out there. They are given magical powers that make them ideally suited to their job. And there is the scene in the beginning where she CHOOSES who she is. The problem that I had with it was when she at the very last minute used her technopathy to make everyone else obsolete. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/125 "2009-05-13T18:39:21Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I vigorously dispute that this is a bad message. Wow. I find this post absolutely disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/126 "2009-05-13T18:56:43Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Heh, my wife had a bit of input on the story. The aspect of the roles was part of an initiative to give girls useful identities in the context of the story rather than the general wallpaper at the whim of the boys with actual personalities thing that’s so common in children’s properties. I have not seen the movie, but may I mention something? It sounds to me as if Tinkerbell did not actually try the role she rejected. That is, she didn’t want it, but hadn’t really thought about it. When she did accept it, she found she not only had a knack for it but that it was fun. Is this perhaps a correct interpretation? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/127 "2009-05-13T18:58:25Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I don’t think so. Forrest’s good fortune came a lot from his relationship to others. He inspired others by his selfless caring for them that they returned the favor in some way. Except that a lot of the good things that happened to him were beyond the control of the people in his life. The storm that killed every shrimpin’ boat but his? His amazing running ability? His talent for ping pong? No one gave him those things. About the only thing that someone did for him was Lt. Dan investing in Apple, and that was a risky move right there. I really see it as a Law of Attraction thing. Isn’t there a Taoist saying about being like a feather on the wind? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/128 "2009-05-13T19:16:55Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > Wow. I find this post absolutely disgusting. I find your lack of a sense of humor disturbing… Cue heavy breathing… ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/129 "2009-05-13T19:18:13Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I have not seen the movie, but may I mention something? It sounds to me as if Tinkerbell did not actually try the role she rejected. That is, she didn’t want it, but hadn’t really thought about it. When she did accept it, she found she not only had a knack for it but that it was fun. Is this perhaps a correct interpretation? Yes, that’s pretty much it. The reason she wanted to be a different kind of fairy is because the other fairies got to travel to the ‘mainland’ ie the world of humans to herald the seasons. It wasn’t because she didn’t like her job or felt it beneath her, it was entirely because she wanted to go see the mainland. It is revealed later that she is actually a bit of a prodigy even among Tinker fairies. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/130 "2009-05-13T19:19:21Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Except that a lot of the good things that happened to him were beyond the control of the people in his life. > > The storm that killed every shrimpin’ boat but his? His amazing running ability? His talent for ping pong? No one gave him those things. About the only thing that someone did for him was Lt. Dan investing in Apple, and that was a risky move right there. > > I really see it as a Law of Attraction thing. > > Isn’t there a Taoist saying about being like a feather on the wind? Yes, I think the Taoist interpretation is spot on. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/131 "2009-05-13T19:35:10Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > **Escape from New York/ Escape from L.A.** : > > So the world is a shitty place where ordinary people suffer and perish like roaches, and the people running things only care about their power and privilege. And you’re a violent misfit loner who would be just as happy to live as a predator/scavenger for the rest of your life. The answer is to DESTROY CIVILIZATION. Wait, I still believe that! Maybe I should hold off on planting this Ebola… ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/132 "2009-05-13T19:41:12Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > _Fight Club_: Terrorism is personally cleansing and is really a rebirth experience of sorts. Well, it could be, maybe. But I think Project Mayhem was meant to be extremely creepy. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/133 "2009-05-13T19:48:53Z")
A little late to the party, but: _ **Jungle Fever** _: If you’re a married black man and you cheat on your wife, your friends will have no moral objection to this. Unless the woman you’re cheating with is white. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/134 "2009-05-13T19:51:01Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I find your lack of a sense of humor disturbing… > > Cue heavy breathing… Whatever. :rolleyes: No, I don’t really find jokes saying it’s fine to “trade your passed-out girlfriend to another guy to do with as he will” very funny. I guess I’m just an oversensitive bitch. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/135 "2009-05-13T20:02:14Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > Whatever. :rolleyes: No, I don’t really find jokes saying it’s fine to “trade your passed-out girlfriend to another guy to do with as he will” very funny. I guess I’m just an oversensitive bitch. :rolleyes: Yeah, because that’s exactly what I said. :rolleyes: right back at cha. No one was actually saying they seriously wanted to pass around their passed out girlfriend like a party favor. Especially not in a thread about movies. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/136 "2009-05-13T20:03:47Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > _A Knight’s Tale_: given a choice between a reasonably attractive woman who can support herself, give you good advice, and who treats you well, and a stuck-up, high-maintenance, well-born beauty who manipulates you and nearly gets you killed, go for the beauty. > > Guys, could you _please_ explain this one to me? Sure. I don’t know if William ever had a shot with Kate. Kate wasn’t William’s love interest. I thought she was into the Mark Addy character. > [@Sampiro](#): > > **STAR WARS** - just because you kill billions and billions of innocent people and are a complete toady to the most evil figure in the Galaxy doesn’t mean you can’t get into heaven with one good deed at the very end (by hastening the death of somebody who was about to be blown up anyway). But he saved his biological son! Isn’t love for family the first & greatest love!?? Yeah, David Brin [totally explodes Anakin’s redemption here.](http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/1999/06/15/brin_main/) > [@astro](#): > > [Female Trouble](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_Trouble) > > It’s OK to beat your mother if you don’t get the cha-cha heels you’ve been wanting for Christmas. John Waters is not Hollywood. > [@msmith537](#): > > **Rudy** - If you obsessively give %110 at something you have no particular aptitude for, you may eventually earn enough pity from your “peers” to reach the barest minimum possible level of acheivement. Well, it’s true! And if football is the Most Important Thing in his world, then…yeah, I got nothin’. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/137 "2009-05-13T20:05:37Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > And there is the scene in the beginning where she CHOOSES who she is. Actually, the role CHOOSES her. She picks up a tool of each trade and nothing happens, she picks up the hammer and it glows (yeah, I suppose one could argue that something inside her made it glow, but remember, this is a show for 3-5 year olds). That’s where my problem comes from. She is literally being labeled. BTW, IRL I really don’t obsess over Tinkerbell this much. ---
**Author:** ![Umbriel2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/4af34b/32.png) [@Umbriel2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Umbriel2)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/138 "2009-05-13T20:28:23Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Even in a bottle and with no formal education, a sex slave can still solve problems that an astronaut cannot. Ethical considerations aside, I find this hard to dispute. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/139 "2009-05-13T20:51:14Z")
> [@kingpengvin](#): > > Actually, I think it is that the lives of a few men are not worth the bad publicity to the Government caused by the death of every son of one family. I didn’t even like Saving Private Ryan, but I thought it was pretty clear that the main characters in the movie - including Private Ryan - thought the mission was bullshit. The question facing everyone - including Private Ryan - was what are you going to make of it? > [@](#): > > It’s just one of those things that if you are gonna piss and moan about everything she does (or Bree or Lynette etc…), you’re better off not watching the show at all. Kinda like Seinfeld love it or hate, embrace it or let it get under your skin. Exactly. Not every character on every show is meant to be a role model. Some of them are specifically \*not \* role models. And not every line of dialogue expresses the author’s “message.” > [@Small\_Hen](#): > > But Carol sometimes made it sound as if Maude would be a idiot if she wanted to keep it. She was \*completely \*unsuportive of her mother, and I felt it was implied that she would continue to be unsuportive if Maude kept her baby. But it’s a little perplexing that you’ve chosen to identify Carol as speaking _the_ message of the episode. Why not Walter, who fully supports Maude’s right to do as she chooses, even though her decision will profoundly affect his life as well? ---
**Author:** ![Tenebras](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@Tenebras](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenebras)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2009, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198/140 "2009-05-13T21:41:14Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > No one was actually saying they seriously wanted to pass around their passed out girlfriend like a party favor. Especially not in a thread about movies. Exactly. Everybody knows you keep your passed out girlfriend to yourself. What we want is for you to pass your POG\* to us. - I’ll bet you never realized why collecting and trading POGs was such a big craze, did you? The little disks were just tokens to keep score. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-hollywood-gets-the-message-all-wrong-worst-lessons-from-tv-film/496198.md?page=8)