# When/How did Santa Claus = North Pole? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479 "2004-12-18T04:03:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sassafras\_Kid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@Sassafras\_Kid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sassafras_Kid)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/1 "2004-12-18T04:03:26Z")
It wasn’t in the poem “A visit from St Nicholas” (T’was the night before Christmas). When and how did the North Pole become associated with Santa Claus’s home? ---
**Author:** ![Tanach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@Tanach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanach)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/2 "2004-12-18T05:10:53Z")
It would appear that the North Pole was invented by a German immigrant by the name of Thomas Nast in _Harpers Weekly_ magazine sometime during the period between 1860 and 1880 ([http://www.the-north-pole.com/history/](http://www.the-north-pole.com/history/)). This appears to be confirmed by [this](http://www.historybuff.com/library/refnast.html). _Quote_ “In addition, Nast used his own imagination to expand upon the theme. He was the first to establish that Santa’s home was in the North Pole. In this way, Santa didn’t belong to any one country – he became a citizen of the world. The concept of Santa having a workshop and elves to help him were also Nast’s idea.” ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/3 "2004-12-18T05:39:33Z")
I can find a newspaper cite from 1871 that matter-of-factly says the home of Santa was near the North Pole. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/4 "2004-12-18T07:59:42Z")
Where else but at the top of the world can one have the ultimate vantage point in which to see if all the girls and boys in the world are naughty or nice. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/5 "2004-12-18T15:21:26Z")
> [@Enola Straight](#): > > Where else but at the top of the world can one have the ultimate vantage point in which to see if all the girls and boys in the world are naughty or nice. The image of Santa doing a Karen Carpenter song is now indelibly etched on my brain, and I just needed to share it back with you, **Enola**! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/6 "2004-12-18T16:58:37Z")
Santa = Christmas = winter = ice and snow = North Pole. Plus until the beginning of the 20th century the high arctic really was an unmapped mysterious place. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/7 "2004-12-18T18:22:40Z")
I know this has nothing to do, really, with Santa Claus, but in the time of the Medieval Norse settlements in Greenland, the cathedral there was dedicated to Saint Nicholas. I always thought that to be a charming coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/8 "2004-12-18T18:49:57Z")
I don’t know about the rest of Scandinavia, but in Denmark, everyone knows that Santa lives in Greenland. ---
**Author:** ![Tanach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@Tanach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanach)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/9 "2004-12-18T19:03:27Z")
Kind of unrelated to the OP, but does Santa have magical protection from the gaping hole in the ozone layer that sits directly over his house, or does he have to have regular checkups by a physician to ensure he is not receiving any solar radiation? Really, I guess I am bringing into question whether Santa is a magical being or mere mortal. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/10 "2004-12-18T19:31:20Z")
> [@Tanach](#): > > It would appear that the North Pole was invented by a German immigrant by the name of Thomas Nast in _Harpers Weekly_ magazine sometime during the period between 1860 and 1880 ([History of Santa Claus](http://www.the-north-pole.com/history/)). > > This appears to be confirmed by [this](http://www.historybuff.com/library/refnast.html). > > _Quote_ > “In addition, Nast used his own imagination to expand upon the theme. He was the first to establish that Santa’s home was in the North Pole. In this way, Santa didn’t belong to any one country – he became a citizen of the world. The concept of Santa having a workshop and elves to help him were also Nast’s idea.” I heard on TV just this morning that Nast put him at the North Pole as a marketing gimmick - North Pole explorers were very popular at the time. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/11 "2004-12-18T23:33:35Z")
I’ve been to the North Pole (twice), but I didn’t see Santa or his workshop. Of course, the first time, it was at night, so it was pretty much too dark to see anything that the submarine’s lights weren’t pointed at (mostly its own sail, so we could see to chip the ice away from the planes, and not be stuck). And the second time, I _did_ see the actual red-and-white striped pole sticking out of the ice. But I guess Santa was on vacation, because it was in the middle of the summer. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/12 "2004-12-18T23:37:18Z")
I found another website that seems to be better at giving more specific dates for Nast’s drawings. To quote > [@](#): > > Nast established Santa’s workshop and official residence at the North Pole in four different drawings between 1879 and 1886. On January 4, 1879, Harper’s Weekly published “A Christmas Post,” showing a girl putting a letter in the mailbox, addressed to St. Claus, North Pole. from [http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/santa/santa\_gets\_a\_face.htm](http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/santa/santa_gets_a_face.htm) But, I found an 1871 cite other than Nast. Might imply that Nast merely developed the idea, but didn’t originate it. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/13 "2004-12-19T05:51:24Z")
If Santa, giver of gifts, hirer of elves, and toymaker to the stars, er, I mean, “judge of the people”, is at the North Pole, who–or what–is at the South Pole? Yes, I know the Americans claim to have a station there… but it’s probably offset a few dozen klicks. What’s _really_ there? ---
**Author:** ![Catalyst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@Catalyst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catalyst)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/14 "2004-12-19T06:21:37Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > If Santa, giver of gifts, hirer of elves, and toymaker to the stars, er, I mean, “judge of the people”, is at the North Pole, who–or what–is at the South Pole? > > Yes, I know the Americans claim to have a station there… but it’s probably offset a few dozen klicks. What’s _really_ there? Well, the evil robotic Santa that invariably judges everybody naughty lives in a death fortress on Neptune, so we know it’s at least not him at the South Pole. ---
**Author:** ![MidnightRadio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@MidnightRadio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MidnightRadio)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/15 "2004-12-19T06:34:25Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > If Santa, giver of gifts, hirer of elves, and toymaker to the stars, er, I mean, “judge of the people”, is at the North Pole, who–or what–is at the South Pole? > > Yes, I know the Americans claim to have a station there… but it’s probably offset a few dozen klicks. What’s _really_ there? [Krampus](http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp12052004.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![EvilGhandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@EvilGhandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilGhandi)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/16 "2004-12-19T07:39:46Z")
Tanach, “Kind of unrelated to the OP, but does Santa have magical protection from the gaping hole in the ozone layer that sits directly over his house,” Dude, I’m pretty sure That Santa lives at the NORTH pole. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/17 "2004-12-20T04:49:40Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’ve been to the North Pole (twice), but I didn’t see Santa or his workshop. Of course, the first time, it was at night, so it was pretty much too dark to see anything that the submarine’s lights weren’t pointed at (mostly its own sail, so we could see to chip the ice away from the planes, and not be stuck). And the second time, I _did_ see the actual red-and-white striped pole sticking out of the ice. But I guess Santa was on vacation, because it was in the middle of the summer. Of course you had difficulty seeing Santa et. al. Santa is native to Middle Earth (non-Tolkein), between the realm between Earth and Heaven. This is the natural realm of faeries, elves, atomic badgers, trolls, gruff billy goats…all the creatures of legend to whom time in particular does not apply. To travel between the worlds, one must believe beyond doubt that the the crossing is possible–that there is not even a crossing, really, for to believe in a crossing would differentiate the two worlds and that would allow a logical block to forbid travel. What most people don’t understand is that Santa NEVER comes into our world. He can’t. He is not from here. He has never entered our world as a body & soul the way the rest of us have. But WE can go THERE because we pass through M.E. on our way from Heaven. We are from there. Inanimate objects can travel freely between Heaven/M.E./Earth. Santa is able to visit only with the very young because they still fail to recognize a difference between the two worlds. He can bring them gifts, even speak with them. He can’t interact with most adults because to them, he and his world are impossible. It takes a lot of work to unlearn “impossible” and to re-enter Middle Earth at will. My analyst has asked me not to bring it up too often. 😉 As for the North Pole business, well, that’s fabrication. There is no North Pole in Middle Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/18 "2004-12-20T04:54:06Z")
About the Santa visits: an observer would say that he draws children and their homes into middle earth for a period–does the Santa thingwith the presents & cookies, and then returns all to it previous location. For the adults and their homes, nothing changes all night. Sorry for that omission. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/19 "2004-12-20T07:24:22Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > Of course you had difficulty seeing Santa et. al. Santa is native to Middle Earth (non-Tolkein), between the realm between Earth and Heaven. This is the natural realm of faeries, elves, atomic badgers, trolls, gruff billy goats…all the creatures of legend to whom time in particular does not apply. > > To travel between the worlds, one must believe beyond doubt that the the crossing is possible–that there is not even a crossing, really, for to believe in a crossing would differentiate the two worlds and that would allow a logical block to forbid travel. What most people don’t understand is that Santa NEVER comes into our world. He can’t. He is not from here. He has never entered our world as a body & soul the way the rest of us have. But WE can go THERE because we pass through M.E. on our way from Heaven. We are from there. Inanimate objects can travel freely between Heaven/M.E./Earth. > > Santa is able to visit only with the very young because they still fail to recognize a difference between the two worlds. He can bring them gifts, even speak with them. He can’t interact with most adults because to them, he and his world are impossible. It takes a lot of work to unlearn “impossible” and to re-enter Middle Earth at will. My analyst has asked me not to bring it up too often. 😉 As for the North Pole business, well, that’s fabrication. There is no North Pole in Middle Earth. No, I’m pretty sure he was on vacation. See, there was a sign on the pole. ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/898d66/32.png) [@Mycroft\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_H)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/20 "2004-12-20T16:08:35Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > If Santa, giver of gifts, hirer of elves, and toymaker to the stars, er, I mean, “judge of the people”, is at the North Pole, who–or what–is at the South Pole? > > Yes, I know the Americans claim to have a station there… but it’s probably offset a few dozen klicks. What’s really there? What I remember from Michael Palin’s _Pole to Pole_ is that the US Station is almost right at the geographic south pole - at least within walking distance. They have the “ceremonial” south pole, near a door to the enclosed station where dignitaries and other visitors can have their photo shoot. It is spruced up for the effect. The actual pole is a little ways off ( a few hundred meters?) and is just a simple marker. So, if evil Santa is at the South Pole, visiting from Neptune, or if Krampus is actually there, they must be in league with the US government. (Both Repubs and Dems, this conspiracy crosses political affiliations.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479.md?page=2)