# When/How did Santa Claus = North Pole? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479 "2004-12-18T04:03:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/21 "2004-12-20T16:31:36Z")
[Biography of St. Nicholas of Myra](http://www.satucket.com/lectionary/Nicholas.htm), a historical personage. (The story that he slapped Arius across the face at the Council of Nicaea appears to be urban legend.) When he retired from his bishopric, he appears to have moved north, borrowing or causing the Father Christmas imagery. With the more severe climate, he found the heavy red fur-lined-and-trimmed outfit and cap more comfortable. St. Francis appears to have introduced him to reindeer as his ‘totem’ animal. And his compassionate nature led him to take in elves who had been made redundant and laid off as belief in such things dwindled, and give them rewarding, meaningful work. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/22 "2004-12-20T17:17:17Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > If Santa, giver of gifts, hirer of elves, and toymaker to the stars, er, I mean, “judge of the people”, is at the North Pole, who–or what–is at the South Pole? > > Yes, I know the Americans claim to have a station there… but it’s probably offset a few dozen klicks. What’s _really_ there? The Americans really are there. Well, the ice migrates over the pole slowly, but it’s very near. You can see the movement here : every year they hammer in a new post at the pole itself. See [here](http://astro.uchicago.edu/cara/vtour/pole/poles/). See [here](http://www.cmdl.noaa.gov/obop/spo/livecamera.html) for a live webcam view at the pole station. Brr. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/23 "2004-12-20T17:40:22Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I _did_ see the actual red-and-white striped pole sticking out of the ice. But I guess Santa was on vacation, because it was in the middle of the summer. That would be Santa’s barbershop, but it’s been a while since he stopped in for a shave and a haircut. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/24 "2004-12-20T17:50:47Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > That would be Santa’s barbershop, but it’s been a while since he stopped in for a shave and a haircut. 🙂 We’ll if he’s singing _On Top of the World_, he’s probably so anorexic that his beard and hair have fallen out… ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/25 "2004-12-20T20:15:08Z")
WAG **Santa lost the toss with the Easter Bunny!** ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/26 "2004-12-20T20:29:53Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I’ve been to the North Pole (twice), but I didn’t see Santa or his workshop. Of course, the first time, it was at night, so it was pretty much too dark to see anything that the submarine’s lights weren’t pointed at (mostly its own sail, so we could see to chip the ice away from the planes, and not be stuck). And the second time, I _did_ see the actual red-and-white striped pole sticking out of the ice. _Hint:_ Look **under** the pole… (whistles the _Mission: Impossible_ theme song) ---
**Author:** ![TheFaerie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TheFaerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFaerie)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2004, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/27 "2004-12-20T21:38:35Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > About the Santa visits: an observer would say that he draws children and their homes into middle earth for a period–does the Santa thingwith the presents & cookies, and then returns all to it previous location. For the adults and their homes, nothing changes all night. > > Sorry for that omission. That is probably the best explaination of Santa and the North Pole that I have ever come across. Thanks **Inigo**! Happy Holidays! ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/28 "2004-12-21T01:27:29Z")
> [@TheFaerie](#): > > That is probably the best explaination of Santa and the North Pole that I have ever come across. Thanks **Inigo**! Happy Holidays! Bought a couple more years from my skeptical 8 year old. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/29 "2004-12-21T01:40:53Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > [Biography of St. Nicholas of Myra](http://www.satucket.com/lectionary/Nicholas.htm), a historical personage. (The story that he slapped Arius across the face at the Council of Nicaea appears to be urban legend.) I notice on that page that he seems to be the patron saint of pawn brokers too. Urban legend? > [@](#): > > Nicholas became the patron of an Italian city (I think Bari, which is where his body is now buried) that was a center of the pawnbroking business, and hence a pawnbroking shop traditionally advertises by displaying three gold balls over its front. Anyway, back to the OP. We’re currently on the track of the origin of the association of Santa Claus and the North Pole. I hope to post something more definitive before Christmas Eve. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![psycat90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@psycat90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psycat90)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/30 "2004-12-21T02:25:07Z")
I’m nearly finished reading Stephen Nissenbaum’s [The Battle For Christmas](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679740384/103-8480109-4249414?v=glance) which I highly recommend, it’s just fascinating. According to Nissenbaum, and several [websites - one article, for example](http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/santa/santa_gets_a_face.htm), it was the satirical illustrator Thomas Nast that gave Santa the North Pole as his home base. I’ve learned so many things about the Christmas traditions from this book, I’m just amazed. And, not to spoil it for anyone, but _sniff_, there is no Santa Claus. ☹ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![psycat90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@psycat90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psycat90)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/31 "2004-12-21T02:29:32Z")
Cripes, I need to slow down when posting. I meant to say, I was just agreeing with what \*\*Tanach \*\* had said. But yet again, haste gets the best of me. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/32 "2004-12-21T03:12:43Z")
> [@psycat90](#): > > I’m nearly finished reading Stephen Nissenbaum’s [The Battle For Christmas](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679740384/103-8480109-4249414?v=glance) which I highly recommend, it’s just fascinating. > > According to Nissenbaum, and several [websites - one article, for example](http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/santa/santa_gets_a_face.htm), it was the satirical illustrator Thomas Nast that gave Santa the North Pole as his home base. Of course, that’s not true. Nast popularized the idea about the SC/North Pole connection, but he did NOT originate it. ---
**Author:** ![psycat90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@psycat90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psycat90)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/33 "2004-12-21T03:57:16Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Of course, that’s not true. Nast popularized the idea about the SC/North Pole connection, but he did NOT originate it. Hmm. Oh well. I’m just learning about things I’d never really known about the origins of a lot of the things we associate with Christmas. Perhaps that’s why that book is so fascinating to me. (Yes, I’m a slow learner.) If the one true origin is not known exactly though, wouldn’t the popularization be considered equally, if not more important? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/34 "2004-12-21T07:23:54Z")
> [@psycat90](#): > > And, not to spoil it for anyone, but _sniff_, there is no Santa Claus. ☹ :eyes welling with tears smilie: YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!! :sob smilie: ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/35 "2004-12-21T07:26:58Z")
Well, DANG, I never saw THAT happen before. ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/36 "2004-12-21T07:51:51Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > I notice on that page that he seems to be the patron saint of pawn brokers too. Urban legend? A quickie googling looks like it’s [true](http://www.catholicculture.org/lit/calendar/day.cfm?id=341). Lots of good cites come up. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479/37 "2004-12-21T10:05:30Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > :eyes welling with tears smilie: > > YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!! > > :sob smilie: There there, he meant “There ain’t no SANITY Clause” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-santa-claus-north-pole/280479.md?page=1)