# When/how did 'up' come to mean 'wrong'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 22, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792 "2005-03-22T23:18:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/1 "2005-03-22T23:18:43Z")
In the phrase ‘what’s up’ and ‘something’s up’, ‘up’ clearly means wrong, amiss, different in a negative way. How did a word meaning the opposite of down become another meaning for ‘wrong’. And why ‘up’ rather than ‘down’ which would seem to make morse sense? ---
**Author:** ![mr.meman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@mr.meman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.meman)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/2 "2005-03-22T23:21:13Z")
Hm, maybe its because they sound the same and run together (by that I mean the uh). Whats (wuhts) up, and somethings (suhmthings) up. That’s my guess. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/3 "2005-03-22T23:21:27Z")
It doesn’t mean wrong, it mean’s something’s astir, something’s happening. American’s use it as a greeting “What’s up?” “Nothing, how 'bout you?” “Not much”. The answer is not presumed negative. ---
**Author:** ![ageless6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@ageless6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ageless6)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/4 "2005-03-22T23:46:12Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > In the phrase ‘what’s up’ and ‘something’s up’, ‘up’ clearly means wrong, amiss, different in a negative way. > > How did a word meaning the opposite of down become another meaning for ‘wrong’. > > And why ‘up’ rather than ‘down’ which would seem to make morse sense? I don’t know morse code, so maybe it does make sense in that form of communication. But ShibbOleth is right; What’s up just means ‘whats’s the haps, man?’, and ‘something’s up’ just means something is goin’ on. As to down making more sense, I guess you could say: "What’s down, dude? And then the answer would be either,“I am”, or “Not me man, I’m just peachy keen”. Are you down with that? ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/5 "2005-03-23T00:53:12Z")
“What’s going down?” seems a lot more “negative” to me than “yo, what’s up?” does. ---
**Author:** ![monica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@monica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monica)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/6 "2005-03-23T00:56:34Z")
The tone is everything here. If I say in a sympathetic voice “hey, what’s up?” I’m probably asking what’s wrong. If I say “What’s up?” in normal conversation, or when I see you, I’m probably just asking what’s going on. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/7 "2005-03-23T01:16:11Z")
Think of the statements as “What is up _and moving around_?” “Something is up _and moving around_.” I would also agree that “What’s up?” has no implicit or explicit negative connotation outside of context. “Something’s up.” may more frequently be used in a negative manner, but it still relies on context. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/8 "2005-03-23T01:21:31Z")
To add some context via the OED, they offer as first cites(subject to more modern electronic database searches) > [@](#): > > 1838 MRS. GASKELL Let. 19 Aug. (1966) 37, I did not mention a word to Lucy but she must have guessed something was ‘up’. 1849 ALB. SMITH Pottleton Legacy ix. 75 He saw something was ‘up’. 1851 MAYHEW Lond. Labour I. 21 A shout in answer from the other asks, ‘What’s up?’ ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/9 "2005-03-23T01:57:07Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > In the phrase ‘what’s up’ and ‘something’s up’, ‘up’ clearly means wrong, amiss, different in a negative way. It certainly does not mean that. How you find it “clear” is beyond me. Replace the word “up” with the phrase “going on” and you have an accurate rendition of the meaning. In some situations there might be a sense of something amiss, but that is most definitely not the case in all situations where those phrases might be used. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/10 "2005-03-23T01:57:31Z")
For all those who accept that ‘what’s up?’ doesn’t have a negative connotation I have a question. Considering that where I come from, ‘what’s up’ does indeed mean ‘what’s wrong’, and that phrases adopted for one meaning often come from a valid, older meaning (i.e. the phrase ‘what’s up’ as a greeting may have originated from the same phrase as an inquiry of the nature of distress) why does the older meaning use ‘up’ as ‘wrong’? ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/11 "2005-03-23T02:14:01Z")
The word “up” has many different uses. [**dictionary.com**](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=up) > [@](#): > > ``` > 1. a.In or to a higher position: looking up. > b.In a direction opposite to the center of the earth or a comparablegravitational center: up from the lunar surface. > 2.In or to an upright position: sat up in bed. > 3. a.Above a surface: coming up for air. > b.So as to detach or unearth: pulling up weeds. > c.Above the horizon: as the sun came up. > 4.Into view or existence: draw up a will. > 5.Into consideration: take up a new topic. > 6.In or toward a position conventionally regarded as higher, as on a scale, chart, or map: temperatures heading up; up > in Canada. > 7.To or at a higher price: stocks that are going up. > 8.So as to advance, increase, or improve: Our spirits went up. > 9.With or to a greater intensity, pitch, or volume: turn the sound up. > > ``` > > 10.Into a state of excitement or turbulence: stir up; rouse up. > 11.Completely; entirely: drank it up in a gulp; fastened up the coat. > 12.Used as an intensifier of the action of a verb: typed up a list. > 13.So as to approach; near: came up and kissed me. > 14.To a stop: pulled up in front of the station. > 15.Each; apiece: The score was tied at 11 up. > 16.Apart; into pieces: tore it up. > 17.Nautical. To windward. > adj. > > ``` > 1.Being above a former position or level; higher: My grades are up. The pressure is up. > 2. a.Out of bed: was up by seven. > b.Standing; erect. > [c.]Facing upward: two cards up, one down; the up side of a tossed coin. > 3.Raised; lifted: a switch in the up position. > 4.Moving or directed upward: an up elevator. > 5. a.Marked by increased excitement or agitation; aroused: Our fighting spirit was up. > b.Informal. Cheerful; optimistic; upbeat. > c.Slang. Happily excited; euphoric: After receiving the award, the performer was really up. > 6.Informal. Taking place; going on: wondered what was up back home. > 7.Being considered; under study: a contract that is up for renewal. > 8.Running as a candidate. > 9.On trial; charged: The defendant is up for manslaughter. > > ``` > > 10.Having been finished; over: Your time is up. > 11.Informal. > a.Prepared; ready: had to be up for the game. > b.Well informed; abreast: not up on sports. > 12.Functioning or capable of functioning normally; operational: Their computers are now up. > 13.Sports. Being ahead of one’s opponent: up two strokes in golf. > 14.Baseball. At bat. > 15.As a bet; at stake. > 16.Nautical. Bound; headed: a freighter up for Panama. > prep. > > ``` > 1.From a lower to or toward a higher point on: up the hill. > 2.Toward or at a point farther along: two miles up the road. > 3.In a direction toward the source of: up the Mississippi. > 4.Nautical. Against: up the wind. > > ``` > > n. > > ``` > 1.An upward slope; a rise. > 2.An upward movement or trend. > 3.Slang. A feeling of excitement or euphoria. > > ``` > > v. upped, up·ping, ups > v. tr. > > ``` > 1.To increase: upped their fees; upping our output. > 2.To raise to a higher level, especially to promote to a higher position. > 3.Nautical. To raise: up anchor; up sail. > > ``` > > v. intr. > > ``` > 1.To get up; rise. > 2.Informal. To act suddenly or unexpectedly: “She upped and perjured her immortal soul” (Margery Allingham). > > ``` > > Idioms: > on the up-and-up/up and up Informal > > ``` > Open and honest. > > ``` > > up against > > ``` > Confronted with; facing: up against a strong opponent. > > ``` > > up to > > ``` > 1.Occupied with, especially devising or scheming: a prowler up to no good. > 2.Able to do or deal with: didn't feel up to a long drive. > 3.Dependent on: The success of this project is up to us. > 4. a.To the point of; as far as: I'm up to chapter 15 in my book. > b.As long as: allowed up to two hours to finish the test. > c.As many as: seed that yields up to 300 bushels per acre. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/12 "2005-03-23T02:17:01Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Considering that where I come from, ‘what’s up’ does indeed mean ‘what’s wrong’… I owe you an apology. I assumed you were in the U.S. and my response applies to the way I’ve heard those phrases used here in the States. Now that I see where you are, I defer to your understanding of their meaning in your locale. I’m sorry for my unhelpful repy. As to whether either meaning might have come from the other, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/13 "2005-03-23T02:28:13Z")
Hey Gary, No need to apologize. My post was designed simply to supply information which I had neglected to provide in the OP. I shouldn’t have expected people to automatically know what meaning of ‘what’s up’ I was refering to. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/14 "2005-03-23T02:40:19Z")
To be fair to the OP, I just read about 5 early uses of the expression in US newspapers from the 1850’s, and it almost always meant “what’s the matter?” ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/15 "2005-03-23T02:49:34Z")
We’ve all been corrupted by Mel Blanc, Chuck Jones, and Tex Avery. ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/16 "2005-03-23T03:52:13Z")
You’re out walking when you notice your companion has frozen in his tracks, curiously looking around sniffing the air. “What’s upwind?” you ask. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2005, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-how-did-up-come-to-mean-wrong/295792/17 "2005-03-23T04:19:22Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > To be fair to the OP, I just read about 5 early uses of the expression in US newspapers from the 1850’s, and it almost always meant “what’s the matter?” FTR, I am upset that I never just invited myself up to Akron to see **Samclem** ’s library back when it wasn’t so far away. It must be a marvelous place.