# When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-or-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout/552229>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [September 1, 2010, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-or-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout/552229 "2010-09-01T03:52:30Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 7\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-or-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout/552229/1 "2010-09-01T03:52:30Z")

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What is the origin of the title phrase? I know Heinlein used it.

One person says that the original phrase was [When in danger or in doubt, port your helm and come about.](http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/006707.html#93641). These citations are found on the same page:

> [@](#):
>
> \<1942 “The OCD [[Office of Civilian Defense]] began ringing the firebell at night and shouted all Americans would be bombed out of their beds if they didn’t immediately abandon apathy and begin to run in circles, scream, and shout . . .”—‘Chronicle Telegram’ (Elyria, Ohio), 26 October, page 2\>
> 
> \<1948 “The old Army War College used to have a football team whose slogan was ‘When in trouble when in doubt run in circles scream and shout.’ This slogan could be applied to our political leaders in Washington.”—‘Valley Morning Star’ (Harlingen, Texas), 9 May\>

Someone else points out that his own father was in the Naval Academy Class of 1928. One of this person’s father’s classmates said, ‘We all remember that little verse we learned at the Academy: “When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, jump, and shout.”’ in a work published in 1973 for the Class’s 45th reunion. Heinlein was in the Class of '29; thus, it’s possible Heinlein heard it there.

There’s a recollection of a guy’s father’s classmate, which may or may not be correctly remembered. The earliest published citation (on that page) of the exact phrase is 1948, with a partial usage published in 1942. I’m prepared to accept that the phrase was known to USNA Class of 1928. I didn’t note a date for the allegedly earlier ‘port your helm’ variant.

Anyone know for sure when and where the phrase originated?

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**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-or-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout/552229/2 "2010-09-01T04:02:15Z")

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[“When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.” Origin? Source?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=387334&highlight=circles)

> [@"When in danger, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout." Origin? Source?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-when-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-origin-source/371906/12):
>
> I think it’s safe to say that it IS probably a Naval related saying from about the WWII period or perhaps before. Just WHO invented it we’ll probably never know.

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**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-or-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout/552229/3 "2010-09-01T04:06:41Z")

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In one of Herman Wouks novels, I don’t remember which one, he has a naval person say, “When in wonder or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout. Hoist the flag and fire a gun; Send the signal out, Well Done.” I suspect the bit of doggerel originated with the navy, but I don’t know for sure.

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**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-or-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout/552229/4 "2010-09-01T04:14:00Z")

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A post in **Squink** ’s link says it comes from _Reefs and Shoals_, circa the late-1920s, from USNA.

.

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**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\
**Post date:** [September 1, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-or-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout/552229/5 "2010-09-01T04:42:12Z")

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> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> A post in **Squink** ’s link says it comes from _Reefs and Shoals_, circa the late-1920s, from USNA.
> 
> .

Google Books, which wasn’t all that when I did the work in 2006, has a hit from 1929, _the Infantry Journal_. I’ve done a search, and I believe it to be a reliable dating. So, War College, not sure if Army or Navy. Now back to the 1920’s at least.

> **[Infantry Journal](https://books.google.com/books?ei=ath9TMmKK4P78Abz8aXCBw&ct=result&id=pj0cAAAAMAAJ&dq=%22when%2Bin%22%2B%22scream%2Band%2Bshout%22&q=scream%2Bshout&hl=en)**

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**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\
**Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-or-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout/552229/6 "2010-09-02T03:06:41Z")

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Well, if it’s in an Army journal, they stole it from the Navy! (Sez the Navy Brat.) 😃

I’m not finding anything on the ‘port your helm’ variant, except what I posted and mentions of that post.

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**Author:** ![Dereknocue67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Dereknocue67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dereknocue67)\
**Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/when-in-danger-or-in-doubt-run-in-circles-scream-and-shout/552229/7 "2010-09-02T08:51:26Z")

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Wouk used it in The Caine Mutiny.